4 ms·

There's something that struck me about the recent controversy with the Memphis datacenter. The one rolling out 2 gigawatts of on-site natural gas to power itsel

There's something that struck me about the recent controversy with the Memphis datacenter. The one rolling out 2 gigawatts of on-site natural gas to power itself. It's this: that the CEO-who-can't-be-named, happens to own one of the largest lithium battery makers in the US; and makes utility-scale grid storage batteries; and also, for completeness, owns a solar photovoltaic plant. If anyone would be using solar+storage for economics, it would that datacenter in sunny, southern USA—but that CEO would rather buy gas than his own product. It's not a one-off datapoint: none of the other upcoming massive AI datacenters, that I've read about, are built for solar power. Amazon's in rural Illinois (2.2 gigawatts), was also on HN, also going with natural gas. I'll believe in this when the ruthlessly optimizing FAANG's believe in it, with their own money. Clearly they do not.

megaman821 1y ago
The xAI datacenters do use batteries though. The batteries have advantages for providing a clean power supply and not tripping the grid when large workloads start or finish. According to the article, 2 GW would require 8-10 Solar GW and 35-40 GWh of batteries to achieve high 90's availability. I would guess finding enough land close by might be a challenge.
justlikereddit 1y ago
You're not supposed to look at the Real world. Just imagine if we install 300GW of solar panels in a dark warehouse and connect it to 3000 GWh of battery capacity, then we can magically dance around with fairies in our CO2 free Utopia? Don't believe it? What are you a nazi bigot?
- seec 1y ago
  You got downvoted, I upvoted because I share the sentiment very strongly. I keep getting downvoted for much less sarcastic comments that are actually providing actual information on reality. In this case, I find it baffling that they see nothing wrong in needing 22km2 just for a solar panel installation, before even talking about the cost of batteries. Like there is no way that this has no environmental impact and plenty of unsuspected side effects. And that's before talking about the fact that it would be an installation for just one usage, in very good conditions. Solar is getting installed because it makes a lot of money for already rich people, there is not really any other good explanation but they'll ask the public to fund the "bad" CO2 producing installation necessary to make the whole thing viable...
eagerpace 1y ago
2 gigawatts of output would require about 8,000 acres of solar panels. The energy density just isn't there compared to gas. https://www.energea.com/understanding-scale-solar-projects/ https://www.energea.com/understanding-scale-solar-projects/
- ben_w 1y ago
  How big is the gas field which supplies the gas turbine?
- anl00000007 1y ago
  Thanks for that! Much of Tennessee is deeply forested. 8000 acres is a square 3.5 miles or 5.7 km on a side. Knocking down that much forest hits different than planting poles in dry grassland or desert that prevails in much of the western US.
- throw-qqqqq 1y ago
  It requires some square kilometers of panels yes, but it’s definitely possible to do solar farms at that scale. E.g. the Al Dhafra Solar PV project in the UAE has a capacity of 2 GW and covers over 20 square kilometers, using ~4 million panels.
  - eagerpace 1y ago
    Of course, but not in the footprint available at the data center
    - ben_w 1y ago
      No cheap land for sale in Califonia City that this DC and corresponding PV array could've used? I mean, sure, Musk clearly doesn't like CA these days, but the point is there's a lot of cheap land out there.
selimthegrim 1y ago
Louisiana also has industry who would love more solar deployment but is getting kneecapped by Entergy who will ask how high when Meta says jump.
nehal3m 1y ago
If they were ruthlessly optimizing they wouldn't be jumping on the AI train at the scale they do, and then they wouldn't need those DC's in the first place.

megaman821 1y ago

The xAI datacenters do use batteries though. The batteries have advantages for providing a clean power supply and not tripping the grid when large workloads start or finish. According to the article, 2 GW would require 8-10 Solar GW and 35-40 GWh of batteries to achieve high 90's availability. I would guess finding enough land close by might be a challenge.

justlikereddit 1y ago

You're not supposed to look at the Real world. Just imagine if we install 300GW of solar panels in a dark warehouse and connect it to 3000 GWh of battery capacity, then we can magically dance around with fairies in our CO2 free Utopia? Don't believe it? What are you a nazi bigot?

seec 1y ago
You got downvoted, I upvoted because I share the sentiment very strongly. I keep getting downvoted for much less sarcastic comments that are actually providing actual information on reality. In this case, I find it baffling that they see nothing wrong in needing 22km2 just for a solar panel installation, before even talking about the cost of batteries. Like there is no way that this has no environmental impact and plenty of unsuspected side effects. And that's before talking about the fact that it would be an installation for just one usage, in very good conditions. Solar is getting installed because it makes a lot of money for already rich people, there is not really any other good explanation but they'll ask the public to fund the "bad" CO2 producing installation necessary to make the whole thing viable...

eagerpace 1y ago

2 gigawatts of output would require about 8,000 acres of solar panels. The energy density just isn't there compared to gas. https://www.energea.com/understanding-scale-solar-projects/ https://www.energea.com/understanding-scale-solar-projects/

ben_w 1y ago
How big is the gas field which supplies the gas turbine?
anl00000007 1y ago
Thanks for that! Much of Tennessee is deeply forested. 8000 acres is a square 3.5 miles or 5.7 km on a side. Knocking down that much forest hits different than planting poles in dry grassland or desert that prevails in much of the western US.
throw-qqqqq 1y ago
It requires some square kilometers of panels yes, but it’s definitely possible to do solar farms at that scale. E.g. the Al Dhafra Solar PV project in the UAE has a capacity of 2 GW and covers over 20 square kilometers, using ~4 million panels.
- eagerpace 1y ago
  Of course, but not in the footprint available at the data center
  - ben_w 1y ago
    No cheap land for sale in Califonia City that this DC and corresponding PV array could've used? I mean, sure, Musk clearly doesn't like CA these days, but the point is there's a lot of cheap land out there.

selimthegrim 1y ago

Louisiana also has industry who would love more solar deployment but is getting kneecapped by Entergy who will ask how high when Meta says jump.

nehal3m 1y ago

If they were ruthlessly optimizing they wouldn't be jumping on the AI train at the scale they do, and then they wouldn't need those DC's in the first place.