4 ms·

I haven't heard anyone say it out loud, but I'd wager it's in large part related to things like Chinese solar panels containing remotely triggerable kill-switch

I haven't heard anyone say it out loud, but I'd wager it's in large part related to things like Chinese solar panels containing remotely triggerable kill-switches and/or having the ability to function as unauthorized mesh relays https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/ghost-machine-rogue-communication-devices-found-chinese-inverters-2025-05-14/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/ghost-...

EvanAnderson 1y ago
I could see subterfuge in the inverters, but aren't panels themselves electrically very simple? I would think a rogue device within the panel itself would be apparent. It's still worth examining the panels in minute detail. I just think it would be a ton more difficult to hide much functionality within a panel.
05 1y ago
Reds under beds, again?
jandrese 1y ago
You can trace out the circuits on a traditional solar panel. They aren't complex devices. If someone managed to hide some kind of control chip in there and also some sort of connectivity to trigger it then my hat is off to them. I would worry more about the inverters, including microinverters. Also consider that if someone is doing industrial sabotage on that scale it would be much easier to attack the fossil fuel and nuclear power plants and their enormous computer controlled generators. Even hydroelectric would be susceptible. Or maybe attack the substations. There is nothing unique or special about solar panels that makes them a good target, and their highly distributed and diverse nature actually makes them more difficult.
- ben_w 1y ago
  Other targets may be more appropriate, but: > and their highly distributed and diverse nature actually makes them more difficult Distributed doesn't make it harder, if/when there's a common failure mode. See e.g. this with the power grid which is obviously as distributed as any PV connected to it: https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/01/could-hackers-use-new-attack-to-take-down-european-power-grid/ https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/01/could-hackers-use-n...
  - jandrese 1y ago
    Depends if you can exploit the system directly from the Internet or if you need to break into hundreds of thousands of individual networks before you can trigger the attack.
datadrivenangel 1y ago
The S in IoT stands for security
LastTrain 1y ago
This isn’t a thing. As in - try sitting in on a power purchase negotiation where the minutiae of every conceivable risk is debated for hours on end and this never even comes up.

EvanAnderson 1y ago

I could see subterfuge in the inverters, but aren't panels themselves electrically very simple? I would think a rogue device within the panel itself would be apparent. It's still worth examining the panels in minute detail. I just think it would be a ton more difficult to hide much functionality within a panel.

05 1y ago

Reds under beds, again?

jandrese 1y ago

You can trace out the circuits on a traditional solar panel. They aren't complex devices. If someone managed to hide some kind of control chip in there and also some sort of connectivity to trigger it then my hat is off to them. I would worry more about the inverters, including microinverters. Also consider that if someone is doing industrial sabotage on that scale it would be much easier to attack the fossil fuel and nuclear power plants and their enormous computer controlled generators. Even hydroelectric would be susceptible. Or maybe attack the substations. There is nothing unique or special about solar panels that makes them a good target, and their highly distributed and diverse nature actually makes them more difficult.

ben_w 1y ago
Other targets may be more appropriate, but: > and their highly distributed and diverse nature actually makes them more difficult Distributed doesn't make it harder, if/when there's a common failure mode. See e.g. this with the power grid which is obviously as distributed as any PV connected to it: https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/01/could-hackers-use-new-attack-to-take-down-european-power-grid/ https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/01/could-hackers-use-n...
- jandrese 1y ago
  Depends if you can exploit the system directly from the Internet or if you need to break into hundreds of thousands of individual networks before you can trigger the attack.

datadrivenangel 1y ago

The S in IoT stands for security

LastTrain 1y ago

This isn’t a thing. As in - try sitting in on a power purchase negotiation where the minutiae of every conceivable risk is debated for hours on end and this never even comes up.