8 ms·

>EndeavourOS and CachyOS don't put any barriers upon the user, what fixes and guides that work for Arch will work for them The Arch project itself disagrees wi

>EndeavourOS and CachyOS don't put any barriers upon the user, what fixes and guides that work for Arch will work for them The Arch project itself disagrees with that, they will not provide any support or make any assurances about what works on other Arch based distros. The edges being filed of is a substantial difference, which sometimes will matter. The distros (by design) include a lot of defaults, which are assumptions Arch does not make and which it assumes users know about. >SteamOS also clearly has a place as an immutable Arch, hard to argue that it's been a disappointment or a cause of frustration for users, given the narrative has been an overwhelming want from the gaming community for a desktop version. I guess the frustration comes from, if anything, it's narrow scope. I specifically talked about managing Arch yourself. On the Steamdeck you never have to touch a console to make things work. Valve will provide updates for you, no manual intervention needed. It is also well defined and extensively tested hardware, which does not apply to anything else. No user should use SteamOS outside of the Steamdeck, Valve is clear about that. Besides my main point still stands. If you can not install Arch, you lack basic Linux literacy. The moment your Arch based distro based, you can not fix it without these basic skills. You will be disappointed and frustrated and unless you are willing to spend a lot of time learning (after which you could just install Arch anyways) you will never touch Linux again.

rabid-zubat 1y ago
From all things far from truth, this is the farthest.
scheeseman486 1y ago
I specifically said fixes and guides, Arch deriviatives usually have their own active support communities to deal with user support. What your describing also counts for, say, Mint or literally any *-based distro. Nonetheless the Arch wiki is still a useful rescource for solving problems, indeed that was so even when I was using Ubuntu which incenidentlally is how I ended up trying Arch in the first place; I used Arch's resources to fix Ubuntu's problems more than Ubuntu's resources, why not give it a shot? But I bounced off vanilla Arch's install process and painstaking setup. Tried Manjaro, got hit by successive boot breaking bugs, then found EndeavourOS and discovered they hey, Arch doesn't need to be a pain in the ass or a broken piece of shit. Arch can be and can continue to be Arch, anything based on it can be something else but also sort of Arch and that's fine and maybe even really good.
- constantcrying 1y ago
  You are still completely ignoring my point. You, presumably, are not new to Linux. You know how to fix your system. The users CachyOS is targeting do not. They will run into walls, get frustrated and leave. I really couldn't care less that someone like you uses some Arch derivative, because they don't want to spend the 3 hours doing the setup themselves. Just FYI,the Arch setup is as easy as setting up e.g. Debian, unless you are terminally afraid of using terminal UIs.
  - scheeseman486 1y ago
    From a usability perspective all the popular desktop Linux distros are barely different from each other, the things I do and the way I did them in Arch were basically the same things I was doing in Ubuntu, only with pacman instead of apt. Any operating system that requires the user actively maintain it's system stack will, at some point, likely require diving into a terminal and messing with configuration files. The people who run into that wall and bounce off of it wouldn't be better served by Ubuntu, but an immutable OS. Fedora Silverblue, Bazzite et al. Like the Steam Deck, too; though you're wrong about the OS's scope for hardware compatibility. SteamOS supports the Legion Go S officially, but also contains specific patches to support the ROG Ally which they have no affiliation with. Their intent for SteamOS isn't for it to stay on Valve hardware forever.
    - constantcrying 1y ago
      >From a usability perspective all the popular desktop Linux distros are barely different from each other Obviously false. Rolling release distros like Arch require far more intervention. Why do you make up nonsense like that?
      - scheeseman486 1y ago
        I'd say "far more intervention" is massively overstating the supposed problem, in practice I haven't noticed a whole lot of difference over the last few years. I run sudo pacman -Syu, I restart and it works. For those that do run into problems, there's community support available just like there is for Ubuntu as well as a bounty of resources for Arch in general. None of this requires some trial by fire bullshit on part of end users.

rabid-zubat 1y ago

From all things far from truth, this is the farthest.

scheeseman486 1y ago

I specifically said fixes and guides, Arch deriviatives usually have their own active support communities to deal with user support. What your describing also counts for, say, Mint or literally any *-based distro. Nonetheless the Arch wiki is still a useful rescource for solving problems, indeed that was so even when I was using Ubuntu which incenidentlally is how I ended up trying Arch in the first place; I used Arch's resources to fix Ubuntu's problems more than Ubuntu's resources, why not give it a shot? But I bounced off vanilla Arch's install process and painstaking setup. Tried Manjaro, got hit by successive boot breaking bugs, then found EndeavourOS and discovered they hey, Arch doesn't need to be a pain in the ass or a broken piece of shit. Arch can be and can continue to be Arch, anything based on it can be something else but also sort of Arch and that's fine and maybe even really good.

constantcrying 1y ago
You are still completely ignoring my point. You, presumably, are not new to Linux. You know how to fix your system. The users CachyOS is targeting do not. They will run into walls, get frustrated and leave. I really couldn't care less that someone like you uses some Arch derivative, because they don't want to spend the 3 hours doing the setup themselves. Just FYI,the Arch setup is as easy as setting up e.g. Debian, unless you are terminally afraid of using terminal UIs.
- scheeseman486 1y ago
  From a usability perspective all the popular desktop Linux distros are barely different from each other, the things I do and the way I did them in Arch were basically the same things I was doing in Ubuntu, only with pacman instead of apt. Any operating system that requires the user actively maintain it's system stack will, at some point, likely require diving into a terminal and messing with configuration files. The people who run into that wall and bounce off of it wouldn't be better served by Ubuntu, but an immutable OS. Fedora Silverblue, Bazzite et al. Like the Steam Deck, too; though you're wrong about the OS's scope for hardware compatibility. SteamOS supports the Legion Go S officially, but also contains specific patches to support the ROG Ally which they have no affiliation with. Their intent for SteamOS isn't for it to stay on Valve hardware forever.
  - constantcrying 1y ago
    >From a usability perspective all the popular desktop Linux distros are barely different from each other Obviously false. Rolling release distros like Arch require far more intervention. Why do you make up nonsense like that?
    - scheeseman486 1y ago
      I'd say "far more intervention" is massively overstating the supposed problem, in practice I haven't noticed a whole lot of difference over the last few years. I run sudo pacman -Syu, I restart and it works. For those that do run into problems, there's community support available just like there is for Ubuntu as well as a bounty of resources for Arch in general. None of this requires some trial by fire bullshit on part of end users.