3 ms·

freedom of speech is above everything. France and Europe have been pushing narratives to hinder this under the premises of fighting evil (at the moment far righ

freedom of speech is above everything. France and Europe have been pushing narratives to hinder this under the premises of fighting evil (at the moment far right). first they wanted to track any cash usage to fight "terrorism" now they want to watch over social network and remove anonymity from the web. just like they cried over deepseek not talking about tiananmen they opressed people that criticized the left-leaning propaganda baked into the GPTs/Anthropic. in a few years we will have social points like china and those who disagree with left-leaning ideas and government interventionism will be reduced to silence or even jailed.

aredox 1y ago
>those who disagree with left-leaning ideas The current governemtn is close to the far-right, there are more and more attacks on muslim people without much of a eep from the government, there are openly neofascists manifestations in the streets of Paris (not even just far-right, open fascist)... https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2025/05/13/extreme-droite-l-autorisation-de-defile-du-10-mai-en-question_6605842_823448.html https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2025/05/13/extreme-...
- retinaros 1y ago
  macron is surrounded by people from the left, he was minister under a leftist government which paved the way to his first term, most of his policies are left-leaning: strong state interventionism, strong government spending, protection of retirements pensions, suppression of tax on renters, The immigration record for the past year exceeded all forecasts. Visas rose by 16.8%, reaching 2,858,083 in 2024, he is even trying to regularize illegal immigrants in some industries. I really don't know what media you are watching but you should stick to the facts. the majority of attacks and acts of vandalism are against christians in France (from the order of 9-10 times more) and acts of vandalism/violence on muslims actually decreasing year after year (around 130 right now). You can push some propaganda or vision of what is France but numbers matter and looking at numbers we are a failing left leaning government that increased debt and spending like crazy and is now trying to backtrack on many topics because what is looming is what happened to the greeks.
  - aredox 1y ago
    >The immigration record for the past year exceeded all forecasts. Fun fact: same with the UK Conservatives, and same with Italy's Meloni. >he is even trying to regularize illegal immigrants in some industries. Like, you know, Trump. I guess they are also dangerous leftists, given that's your level of proof. >macron is surrounded by people from the left Just lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayrou_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayrou_government As you said, "stick to the facts". >suppression of tax on renters Such leftism! But nice try to misled others who are not aware of reality.
    - retinaros 1y ago
      i never said anything about being "dangerous leftist" I am just saying they are left leaning you translated that by being dangerous for some reason. I am not judging wether right or left is best. I am not biased toward any side unlike you. left leaning is state interventionism, increase of governement debt, refusal to change the pension funds system, tax reduction on people that have no generational wealth, increased tax on people owning real estate, making the working class - besides the lowest income tier- pay for the others. I am not stating wether it is bad or good here again merely saying that most of macron big moves were to cater to the left politics. far-right and unseen before immigration numbers should already prove to you that something is wrong with your reasoning. The left (LFI and Communists) lost the working class long ago. - was already the case under hollande - and Macron brilliantly saw an opportunity to cater to those working class people that were not seeing immigration as the #1 problem but purchasing power, jobs, retirements pensions. This wrecked the chances of far-right parties that were focused on immigration and this also doomed the far-left - that will call anyone disagree with them right wing like you do - with a need to find their own way to seize power and they decided to focus on : immigration, racism and more recently palestine. Once again not voicing wether its good or bad. its probably all that was left to them when they had to face a brighter opponent than them. calling Macron and his two mandates right-wing is just dishonest. we have more immigrants than ever. more governement. more debt. more spending into our social net than ever.
      - aredox 1y ago
immibis 1y ago
What is your plan to fight evil? "Don't fight evil" is also a valid answer, but not a good one. It would be a good one in a world with substantially less evil. I can't really blame them for trying. Even under the untrue condition of perfectly benevolent governments, it's hard problem.
Cthulhu_ 1y ago
> freedom of speech is above everything. No it is not. I have the freedom to call you all kinds of insults, but I will get banned (if I'm not already, I wouldn't know lol). It's the paradox of intolerance. > in a few years we will have social points like china and those who disagree with left-leaning ideas and government interventionism will be reduced to silence or even jailed. This is a slippery slope fallacy. Besides, the current powers-that-be are actively suppressing free speech already, banning books, teachings, erasing LGBTQ+ and Black history. You don't get freedom of speech either on platforms like Twitter, where for example the word "cisgender" gets actively suppressed. That's known, what isn't known is how certain topics get boosted or suppressed by their algorithms, which is why there should be transparency. If you're afraid of the slippery slope from "the left", wake up and see what's actually happening right now. People in the US get disappeared while following the proper immigration processes. The media and speech is actively being suppressed (see the sudden cancellation of The Late Show).
- retinaros 1y ago
  who defines what is an insult? the law? its interpretation based on ideology? who makes the law? in china talking about winnie the pooh can get you to jail. In western europe like (UK,Germany) that would be having memes or criticizing immigration policies dont ever forget that the tools you build to punish and censor your opponents will be in its reach once they come to power. for instance Biden and twitter created a precedent that allowed X and Trump to happen.
- gruez 1y ago
  >This is a slippery slope fallacy. Besides, the current powers-that-be are actively suppressing free speech already, banning books, teachings, erasing LGBTQ+ and Black history. You don't get freedom of speech either on platforms like Twitter, where for example the word "cisgender" gets actively suppressed. That's known, what isn't known is how certain topics get boosted or suppressed by their algorithms, which is why there should be transparency. What does US culture war issues have relevance to what's going on with France? Moreover what's the implication here? Are you trying to imply that because Americans are doing right-wing censorship, it's fine or even required that France engages in left-wing censorship?

aredox 1y ago

>those who disagree with left-leaning ideas The current governemtn is close to the far-right, there are more and more attacks on muslim people without much of a eep from the government, there are openly neofascists manifestations in the streets of Paris (not even just far-right, open fascist)... https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2025/05/13/extreme-droite-l-autorisation-de-defile-du-10-mai-en-question_6605842_823448.html https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2025/05/13/extreme-...

retinaros 1y ago
macron is surrounded by people from the left, he was minister under a leftist government which paved the way to his first term, most of his policies are left-leaning: strong state interventionism, strong government spending, protection of retirements pensions, suppression of tax on renters, The immigration record for the past year exceeded all forecasts. Visas rose by 16.8%, reaching 2,858,083 in 2024, he is even trying to regularize illegal immigrants in some industries. I really don't know what media you are watching but you should stick to the facts. the majority of attacks and acts of vandalism are against christians in France (from the order of 9-10 times more) and acts of vandalism/violence on muslims actually decreasing year after year (around 130 right now). You can push some propaganda or vision of what is France but numbers matter and looking at numbers we are a failing left leaning government that increased debt and spending like crazy and is now trying to backtrack on many topics because what is looming is what happened to the greeks.
- aredox 1y ago
  >The immigration record for the past year exceeded all forecasts. Fun fact: same with the UK Conservatives, and same with Italy's Meloni. >he is even trying to regularize illegal immigrants in some industries. Like, you know, Trump. I guess they are also dangerous leftists, given that's your level of proof. >macron is surrounded by people from the left Just lol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayrou_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayrou_government As you said, "stick to the facts". >suppression of tax on renters Such leftism! But nice try to misled others who are not aware of reality.
  - retinaros 1y ago
    i never said anything about being "dangerous leftist" I am just saying they are left leaning you translated that by being dangerous for some reason. I am not judging wether right or left is best. I am not biased toward any side unlike you. left leaning is state interventionism, increase of governement debt, refusal to change the pension funds system, tax reduction on people that have no generational wealth, increased tax on people owning real estate, making the working class - besides the lowest income tier- pay for the others. I am not stating wether it is bad or good here again merely saying that most of macron big moves were to cater to the left politics. far-right and unseen before immigration numbers should already prove to you that something is wrong with your reasoning. The left (LFI and Communists) lost the working class long ago. - was already the case under hollande - and Macron brilliantly saw an opportunity to cater to those working class people that were not seeing immigration as the #1 problem but purchasing power, jobs, retirements pensions. This wrecked the chances of far-right parties that were focused on immigration and this also doomed the far-left - that will call anyone disagree with them right wing like you do - with a need to find their own way to seize power and they decided to focus on : immigration, racism and more recently palestine. Once again not voicing wether its good or bad. its probably all that was left to them when they had to face a brighter opponent than them. calling Macron and his two mandates right-wing is just dishonest. we have more immigrants than ever. more governement. more debt. more spending into our social net than ever.
    - aredox 1y ago

immibis 1y ago

What is your plan to fight evil? "Don't fight evil" is also a valid answer, but not a good one. It would be a good one in a world with substantially less evil. I can't really blame them for trying. Even under the untrue condition of perfectly benevolent governments, it's hard problem.

Cthulhu_ 1y ago

> freedom of speech is above everything. No it is not. I have the freedom to call you all kinds of insults, but I will get banned (if I'm not already, I wouldn't know lol). It's the paradox of intolerance. > in a few years we will have social points like china and those who disagree with left-leaning ideas and government interventionism will be reduced to silence or even jailed. This is a slippery slope fallacy. Besides, the current powers-that-be are actively suppressing free speech already, banning books, teachings, erasing LGBTQ+ and Black history. You don't get freedom of speech either on platforms like Twitter, where for example the word "cisgender" gets actively suppressed. That's known, what isn't known is how certain topics get boosted or suppressed by their algorithms, which is why there should be transparency. If you're afraid of the slippery slope from "the left", wake up and see what's actually happening right now. People in the US get disappeared while following the proper immigration processes. The media and speech is actively being suppressed (see the sudden cancellation of The Late Show).

retinaros 1y ago
who defines what is an insult? the law? its interpretation based on ideology? who makes the law? in china talking about winnie the pooh can get you to jail. In western europe like (UK,Germany) that would be having memes or criticizing immigration policies dont ever forget that the tools you build to punish and censor your opponents will be in its reach once they come to power. for instance Biden and twitter created a precedent that allowed X and Trump to happen.
gruez 1y ago
>This is a slippery slope fallacy. Besides, the current powers-that-be are actively suppressing free speech already, banning books, teachings, erasing LGBTQ+ and Black history. You don't get freedom of speech either on platforms like Twitter, where for example the word "cisgender" gets actively suppressed. That's known, what isn't known is how certain topics get boosted or suppressed by their algorithms, which is why there should be transparency. What does US culture war issues have relevance to what's going on with France? Moreover what's the implication here? Are you trying to imply that because Americans are doing right-wing censorship, it's fine or even required that France engages in left-wing censorship?