4 ms·

How hard is it to gate the patient entrance to the MRI with a big-ass metal detector turned up to 11? Why is this still a problem?

scarier 1y ago
This is already a common practice. One of the issues with the standard implementation is that it’s set up as an administrative control rather than an engineering control (which would be significantly more difficult/expensive/space-consuming). At least one other comment thread has discussed the airlock implementation that I’m sure a very large number of people have independently thought of.
Cthulhu_ 1y ago
Or gate it, period - nobody should get in that easily.
- SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
  I wonder if that's a problem in case a medical intervention is required.
  - sfn42 1y ago
    The emergency personnel still needs to be controlled to make sure they aren't carrying magnetic stuff.
  - whatevaa 1y ago
    It is.
    - littlestymaar 1y ago
      There are locked doors with badges pretty much everywhere in a hospital in my country though (including the door leading to the ER, and the escalator which goes from the ER to the ICU, in my city's hospital), so I don't really understand what would prevent to put such a door at the entrance of the MRI room.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Also how they have to get people in. One of my MRIs was hours after surgery - I was wheeled in on a stretcher while attached to IV and other machines. They slid me on and off the machine since I wasn't allowed to move myself (I'm not sure if I could have what with the drugs still in my system. take my story with some salt: because of the drugs I wouldn't trust my own memory of the event). Which is to say they need a lot of space around these machines and the doors/gates would need to be very big to fit all the people involved through.
browningstreet 1y ago
I recently had an MRI in one of those full-body MRI machines.. and we went through two locked doors and they used a wand on me (like they have at airports) to scan my body, even after I answered that I had no metal anywhere in my body. There were 3 operators/nurses in the inner ring of all this, operating machines.. securing my limbs, etc. So at least in some places, this is the SOP.
supportengineer 1y ago
What if people used their eyeballs and their common sense? Everyone failed here.
lostlogin 1y ago
MRI operator here: the false alarms from all the metal that’s fine are an issue. Most people have some in/on them and it’s usually fine.
- int_19h 1y ago
  Given the rather spectacular failure mode, isn't this rather a case of "better safe than sorry"? i.e. even if it's technically safe, why not require people to remove everything that triggers the detector just to be sure?
  - lostlogin 1y ago
    You’d be surprised what people won’t do. Unlike many facilities, we insist everyone strips down to underpants (no bra) and wears a gown. We push quite hard to remove all jewellery (including piercings), but many places do not. It removes a whole category of problems, but is also slow, has an extra cost (laundry) and still patients leave things on, covered up by the gown. But the percentage of people with something in them is very very high. We are dealing with a population that by definition has health issues, and I’d estimate that 75%+ have something metal in them. Sternal wires, fillings, clips, biopsy markers, screws, plates, braces, joint replacements (x6), ports, mesh, vascular stent, urinary stents, breast implants. These are conditionally safe implants from yesterday. If we expanded it to a week we could add heart valves, hearing implants, vsd closure devices and about 20 other implants I’m sure. We have either memorised or looked up the conditions for each. We pay techs well because we want good staff. Minimum staffing levels include using healthcare assistants and suchlike. There are potential downsides to this approach, particularly around safety.
    - userbinator 1y ago
      and still patients leave things on, covered up by the gown A strong but still relatively weak "test magnet" seems like it might be a good idea to use on patients --- if it has any effect on any metal pieces they're wearing, tell them the MRI is going to pull on it with a thousand times or more force.

scarier 1y ago

This is already a common practice. One of the issues with the standard implementation is that it’s set up as an administrative control rather than an engineering control (which would be significantly more difficult/expensive/space-consuming). At least one other comment thread has discussed the airlock implementation that I’m sure a very large number of people have independently thought of.

Cthulhu_ 1y ago

Or gate it, period - nobody should get in that easily.

SketchySeaBeast 1y ago
I wonder if that's a problem in case a medical intervention is required.
- sfn42 1y ago
  The emergency personnel still needs to be controlled to make sure they aren't carrying magnetic stuff.
- whatevaa 1y ago
  It is.
  - littlestymaar 1y ago
    There are locked doors with badges pretty much everywhere in a hospital in my country though (including the door leading to the ER, and the escalator which goes from the ER to the ICU, in my city's hospital), so I don't really understand what would prevent to put such a door at the entrance of the MRI room.
- bluGill 1y ago
  Also how they have to get people in. One of my MRIs was hours after surgery - I was wheeled in on a stretcher while attached to IV and other machines. They slid me on and off the machine since I wasn't allowed to move myself (I'm not sure if I could have what with the drugs still in my system. take my story with some salt: because of the drugs I wouldn't trust my own memory of the event). Which is to say they need a lot of space around these machines and the doors/gates would need to be very big to fit all the people involved through.

browningstreet 1y ago

I recently had an MRI in one of those full-body MRI machines.. and we went through two locked doors and they used a wand on me (like they have at airports) to scan my body, even after I answered that I had no metal anywhere in my body. There were 3 operators/nurses in the inner ring of all this, operating machines.. securing my limbs, etc. So at least in some places, this is the SOP.

supportengineer 1y ago

What if people used their eyeballs and their common sense? Everyone failed here.

lostlogin 1y ago

MRI operator here: the false alarms from all the metal that’s fine are an issue. Most people have some in/on them and it’s usually fine.

int_19h 1y ago
Given the rather spectacular failure mode, isn't this rather a case of "better safe than sorry"? i.e. even if it's technically safe, why not require people to remove everything that triggers the detector just to be sure?
- lostlogin 1y ago
  You’d be surprised what people won’t do. Unlike many facilities, we insist everyone strips down to underpants (no bra) and wears a gown. We push quite hard to remove all jewellery (including piercings), but many places do not. It removes a whole category of problems, but is also slow, has an extra cost (laundry) and still patients leave things on, covered up by the gown. But the percentage of people with something in them is very very high. We are dealing with a population that by definition has health issues, and I’d estimate that 75%+ have something metal in them. Sternal wires, fillings, clips, biopsy markers, screws, plates, braces, joint replacements (x6), ports, mesh, vascular stent, urinary stents, breast implants. These are conditionally safe implants from yesterday. If we expanded it to a week we could add heart valves, hearing implants, vsd closure devices and about 20 other implants I’m sure. We have either memorised or looked up the conditions for each. We pay techs well because we want good staff. Minimum staffing levels include using healthcare assistants and suchlike. There are potential downsides to this approach, particularly around safety.
  - userbinator 1y ago
    and still patients leave things on, covered up by the gown A strong but still relatively weak "test magnet" seems like it might be a good idea to use on patients --- if it has any effect on any metal pieces they're wearing, tell them the MRI is going to pull on it with a thousand times or more force.