4 ms·

Not just speed nerfing. The cars now are ~50% larger than they used to be, while the tracks haven't gotten any wider. As a result, there's hardly any overtaking

Not just speed nerfing. The cars now are ~50% larger than they used to be, while the tracks haven't gotten any wider. As a result, there's hardly any overtaking unless an egregious mistake is made. The lame solution they have to this is to allow cars one second behind to mechanically reduce their drag in selected spots of the track (DPS). And don't get me started on the tire regulations. F1, from the cars to the drivers, is peak manufactured drama.

MindSpunk 1y ago
Just about every motorsport series is manufactured drama. The rules and restrictions are arbitrary. Anything with a large televised audience will have the rules impacted by trying to make a spectacle. It's not exclusive to F1. F1 certainly has its issues though, the cars are just too big. Monaco has been a joke of a race for a while, the "race" is won in qualifying. 2026 might be better as the cars are getting smaller again.
FatalLogic 1y ago
>peak manufactured drama That's largely true. There is at least one, wonderful, reward from all the rule-fiddling, though it might be orthogonal to the issues you've highlighted, but driver deaths and severe injuries are much less common than they used to be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_fatalities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_fatalities A cynic would say that, if the arena no longer offers us the ever-present possibility of death, then the drama needs to be enhanced in other ways, even if they are artificial.
- breve 1y ago
  Romain Grosjean survived his car being torn in half: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ7_En2xEm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ7_En2xEm4
avalys 1y ago
Why did the cars get 50% larger? Was it for crashworthiness?
- KORraN 1y ago
  I think it was mostly due to an enlarged fuel tank, as there is no refuelling during races. Also, energy recovering system, batteries, the whole hybrid system. This post has great size comparison: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1i16g7e/f1_car_size_comparison_2005_vs_2026/ https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1i16g7e/f1_car_si... It looks like the nose got longer as well, I assume this is for crashworthiness.
- therealdkz 1y ago
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dwd 1y ago
This will always be peak F1 for me. There's something about the way the car twitches like it could go faster if you let it, and the sound! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c0o697F1g8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c0o697F1g8
- raspasov 1y ago
  The V10s from around 2000 were arguably the best sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqaJKTRs-Kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqaJKTRs-Kg But that 1985 car control is insane!
raspasov 1y ago
I've been watching F1 since circa 1998. Before DRS there was even less overtaking.
- piva00 1y ago
  Exactly, been watching since 1994, before DRS and budget caps it had whole seasons where a team would dominate with cars almost 1s faster per lap than others, and the only thing keeping the championship a little entertaining was the reliability failures. Teams running 3 different engines during a weekend between qualification/race while others only had money for 1 engine every few races. Teams that could outspend other teams by a factor of 10 sometimes, quite ridiculous. I wish cars to get smaller, these behemoths really crowd narrow historical tracks such as Suzuka, the 2026 regs seem to be taming the size of the cars and I hope it's a direction they continue for the next formula changes.
  - raspasov 1y ago
    Reliability was such a huge wild card! I would say Ferrari, in their post-2000 domination, were the first team to make reliability not a factor, for the most part. M Schumacher still holds the record for most consecutive podium finishes, 19 (!), across the 2001-2002 seasons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_driver_records#Most_consecutive_podium_finishes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_driver_rec... Ironically, one reliability mishap arguably cost them the 2006 season.
bruce511 1y ago
Lots of truth here, but context matters. Firstly some tracks have a lot of overtaking. Some are harder, Monaco has none. The need for DRS is primarily because the aerodynamics of the following car are affected by the dirty air caused by the car in front. DRS is an aero assistance to overcome aero penalties. Regulations, spending caps, wind tunnel limitations etc are indeed designed yo keep car performance as close as possible. Frankly without that racing is terminally boring. Without it the pack would simply spread out in predictable formation based on car speed. By keeping the cars closer together in performance the driver matters more, and there is more opportunity for actual racing. I'll also point out that all sports, including all motor sports, are manufactured to create a contest. From the NFL draft system, to baseball cost caps, to endless rule tweaks, the goal of sport is to provide for more unpredictable outcomes. Thats kinda the point.
andrepd 1y ago
You can clearly see this by comparing the formula1 subreddit and, say, the football (soccer) subreddit. One is mostly plays and goals and tactics, the other is mostly ig drama :)
eaurouge 1y ago
> As a result, there's hardly any overtaking unless an egregious mistake is made. The lame solution they have to this is to allow cars one second behind to mechanically reduce their drag in selected spots of the track (DPS). We've had some of the highest overtakes per season in recent years. Tracks like Monaco have always made for low overtakes, but DRS has been a great addition. Overtaking in F1 is difficult because of the dirty air from the car ahead, which has only gotten worse with improved aero, not because the cars are wider. Yes, DRS only reduces drag, but it's a necessary counterbalance to the turbulence. I believe it results in a true slipstream effect, which is exactly what you would have without the dirty air. Editing to provide some data: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nf4jkq/f1_overtaking_database_19942020/ https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nf4jkq/f1_overtak...
randomcarbloke 1y ago
DRS directly dictates track behaviour, and the rules around track position have effectively killed the idea that "If you no longer go for a gap which exists you are no longer a racing driver", because doing so would run counter to the rules. It even feels like you have to wait a few days post race for the FIA to decide who actually won. Whenever I watch WEC or Rally I'm reminded of what real racing is, the comparatively light touch the FIA have with those series has led to much more exciting sports.

MindSpunk 1y ago

Just about every motorsport series is manufactured drama. The rules and restrictions are arbitrary. Anything with a large televised audience will have the rules impacted by trying to make a spectacle. It's not exclusive to F1. F1 certainly has its issues though, the cars are just too big. Monaco has been a joke of a race for a while, the "race" is won in qualifying. 2026 might be better as the cars are getting smaller again.

FatalLogic 1y ago

>peak manufactured drama That's largely true. There is at least one, wonderful, reward from all the rule-fiddling, though it might be orthogonal to the issues you've highlighted, but driver deaths and severe injuries are much less common than they used to be. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_fatalities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_fatalities A cynic would say that, if the arena no longer offers us the ever-present possibility of death, then the drama needs to be enhanced in other ways, even if they are artificial.

breve 1y ago
Romain Grosjean survived his car being torn in half: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ7_En2xEm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ7_En2xEm4

avalys 1y ago

Why did the cars get 50% larger? Was it for crashworthiness?

KORraN 1y ago
I think it was mostly due to an enlarged fuel tank, as there is no refuelling during races. Also, energy recovering system, batteries, the whole hybrid system. This post has great size comparison: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1i16g7e/f1_car_size_comparison_2005_vs_2026/ https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1i16g7e/f1_car_si... It looks like the nose got longer as well, I assume this is for crashworthiness.
therealdkz 1y ago
[dead]

dwd 1y ago

This will always be peak F1 for me. There's something about the way the car twitches like it could go faster if you let it, and the sound! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c0o697F1g8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c0o697F1g8

raspasov 1y ago
The V10s from around 2000 were arguably the best sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqaJKTRs-Kg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqaJKTRs-Kg But that 1985 car control is insane!

raspasov 1y ago

I've been watching F1 since circa 1998. Before DRS there was even less overtaking.

piva00 1y ago
Exactly, been watching since 1994, before DRS and budget caps it had whole seasons where a team would dominate with cars almost 1s faster per lap than others, and the only thing keeping the championship a little entertaining was the reliability failures. Teams running 3 different engines during a weekend between qualification/race while others only had money for 1 engine every few races. Teams that could outspend other teams by a factor of 10 sometimes, quite ridiculous. I wish cars to get smaller, these behemoths really crowd narrow historical tracks such as Suzuka, the 2026 regs seem to be taming the size of the cars and I hope it's a direction they continue for the next formula changes.
- raspasov 1y ago
  Reliability was such a huge wild card! I would say Ferrari, in their post-2000 domination, were the first team to make reliability not a factor, for the most part. M Schumacher still holds the record for most consecutive podium finishes, 19 (!), across the 2001-2002 seasons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_driver_records#Most_consecutive_podium_finishes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_driver_rec... Ironically, one reliability mishap arguably cost them the 2006 season.

bruce511 1y ago

Lots of truth here, but context matters. Firstly some tracks have a lot of overtaking. Some are harder, Monaco has none. The need for DRS is primarily because the aerodynamics of the following car are affected by the dirty air caused by the car in front. DRS is an aero assistance to overcome aero penalties. Regulations, spending caps, wind tunnel limitations etc are indeed designed yo keep car performance as close as possible. Frankly without that racing is terminally boring. Without it the pack would simply spread out in predictable formation based on car speed. By keeping the cars closer together in performance the driver matters more, and there is more opportunity for actual racing. I'll also point out that all sports, including all motor sports, are manufactured to create a contest. From the NFL draft system, to baseball cost caps, to endless rule tweaks, the goal of sport is to provide for more unpredictable outcomes. Thats kinda the point.

andrepd 1y ago

You can clearly see this by comparing the formula1 subreddit and, say, the football (soccer) subreddit. One is mostly plays and goals and tactics, the other is mostly ig drama :)

eaurouge 1y ago

> As a result, there's hardly any overtaking unless an egregious mistake is made. The lame solution they have to this is to allow cars one second behind to mechanically reduce their drag in selected spots of the track (DPS). We've had some of the highest overtakes per season in recent years. Tracks like Monaco have always made for low overtakes, but DRS has been a great addition. Overtaking in F1 is difficult because of the dirty air from the car ahead, which has only gotten worse with improved aero, not because the cars are wider. Yes, DRS only reduces drag, but it's a necessary counterbalance to the turbulence. I believe it results in a true slipstream effect, which is exactly what you would have without the dirty air. Editing to provide some data: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nf4jkq/f1_overtaking_database_19942020/ https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nf4jkq/f1_overtak...

randomcarbloke 1y ago

DRS directly dictates track behaviour, and the rules around track position have effectively killed the idea that "If you no longer go for a gap which exists you are no longer a racing driver", because doing so would run counter to the rules. It even feels like you have to wait a few days post race for the FIA to decide who actually won. Whenever I watch WEC or Rally I'm reminded of what real racing is, the comparatively light touch the FIA have with those series has led to much more exciting sports.