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This is the same for almost all electronics. If you buy a toaster, how much do you think it really costs to manufacture the €20 no name brand vs the €80 Delongh

by fy20 1y ago

This is the same for almost all electronics. If you buy a toaster, how much do you think it really costs to manufacture the €20 no name brand vs the €80 Delonghi branded one? In both cases, the price the customer pays is many multiples higher than the manufacturing cost. This is why these Chinese sellers have become so popular - although in some cases, yes they are cutting corners - the main reason why they can sell the products so much cheaper is because they cut out a number of middlemen. The person who imports the product into Europe has to make a profit. The person who brings it from there into your country and distributes it has to make a profit. The retailer has to make a profit, on top of paying their staff and landlord. It all adds up.

esperent 1y ago
I run a business in Vietnam, and it's often hard/prohibitively expensive to purchase recognizable brand name items so we end up purchasing lots of these unbranded/rebranded Chinese items. The quality varies wildly and there's no way to know ahead of time. I would always recommend buying recognizable brands for anything critical. Otherwise it's basically a lottery. Quality control for brands, not to mention customer support, might feel like it leaves a lot to be desired. But it's still light years ahead of un/rebranded Chinese goods. Since we have no choice, and the odds of coming out ok (if not exactly winning) in this lottery are not that bad, it's a workable situation. But because we have to replace things so often, I'd say we don't save much money - compared to western prices for the brands I mean. Compared to Vietnamese prices, we definitely save money. I'm not happy about the waste created, but at least we're in the country where everything goes to get recycled already. On the other hand, there are also good quality Chinese brands (Dong Chen power tools, for example, or Timemore coffee equipment). But they're not that cheap.
- jjmarr 1y ago
  The real question is why Chinese companies aren't investing in brand development in Western countries.
  - SV_BubbleTime 1y ago
    We have our products knocked off in China… we did work to shut them down, but another just pops up with a different name. They weren’t developing brand because they weren’t developing products.
  - 7bit 1y ago
    Because they don't want to be held responsible. They don't want to do QA. They don't want good quality products. They don't want warranties. They don't want to take back their broken products. They rather slap on a new name and continue selling their crap when the old brand product is being banned in the EU
  - toast0 1y ago
    Managing a brand in Western countries is a totally different job than producing product and sending it out. It's also hard to manage things in countries where you aren't. The importers that find these goods, buy inventory, sell locally for a markup, and provide warranty service are providing a valuable function in the economy and have earned some markup.
  - esperent 1y ago
    There's loads. Anker, Lenovo, BYD, Timemore, Xiaomi, TCL, HiSense, Haier, Huawei, TikTok.
  - libertine 1y ago
    This might be a controversial take, but here it goes: the vast majority of Chinese brands are really bad at marketing to Western audiences. There are a few good ones, but they had to do what was necessary. For example, to increase the appeal of electric vehicles - they hired German industrial designers from European automakers. The few ones that come to mind are Huawei, DJI, and arguably Xiaomi. Then, of course, you have niche companies with great products that market mainly through influencers, such as Bambulab. There are also plenty of niche products from Chinese brands with high quality. But the vast majority are sloppy, lack "good taste" (which is subjective to culture), compete mainly on price, and from my understanding, they haven't developed their own identity - or at least popularized it in Western countries. For example, Japanese companies' marketing, and even the marketing in Japan, has an appeal to Western audiences because of cultural exchanges (from products to media for many decades). It's unique and original to them, and Western audiences cherish it.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  In some product categories, it's all the same junk. I was researching dehumidifiers a few years ago and the consensus seemed to be that regardless of brand you can expect it to fail in 2-3 years because internally they all use the same cheap Chinese components. So why not buy an AFLUUHOO dehumidifier instead of a name brand one? There are also markets where the markup on brand names is insane. For example: take a water pump, then brand it an "aquarium water pump", and suddenly you can charge 4x more for the same thing. Here even bad quality Chinese products win out because the cost is so much less (and it's not even certain that the quality is inferior since the brand names are also made in china). Finally, I can't stress what a negative purchasing signal "smart"/IoT features are for me. Perhaps some people love having online accounts for their lightbulbs and waiting around for the manufacturer to brick their devices, but it's not my cup of tea. Chinese devices often either lack smart features or use Bluetooth + a very basic app with no logins required. Another win.
  - esperent 1y ago
    > and it's not even certain that the quality is inferior since the brand names are also made in china Well, even from the same factory, different levels of quality control are done, and different materials are used. For example, the last few days I've been researching a cordless drill. It seems that Total/Ingco are Chinese brands made in the same factory (they just change the plastic color and logo), and it also seems highly likely that the factory also makes DeWalt. However, while the DeWalt drills look very similar, they're also visibly higher quality plastic, and when I found a comparison video of the three, the DeWalt was also more powerful, had additional features and was just clearly the better choice. On the other hand, it's about three times more expensive and the consensuses seems to be that Total/Ingco are not terrible - probably fine for a homeowner who does occasional handiwork. Personally I went with a DongChen drill and using it for a few jobs I think I made a good choice. It's strong, feels heavy and solid. However, I've also got a couple of small Total items like a current tester pen, and it's fine. Lasted a few years of occasional use so far.

by fy20 1y ago

esperent 1y ago

I run a business in Vietnam, and it's often hard/prohibitively expensive to purchase recognizable brand name items so we end up purchasing lots of these unbranded/rebranded Chinese items. The quality varies wildly and there's no way to know ahead of time. I would always recommend buying recognizable brands for anything critical. Otherwise it's basically a lottery. Quality control for brands, not to mention customer support, might feel like it leaves a lot to be desired. But it's still light years ahead of un/rebranded Chinese goods. Since we have no choice, and the odds of coming out ok (if not exactly winning) in this lottery are not that bad, it's a workable situation. But because we have to replace things so often, I'd say we don't save much money - compared to western prices for the brands I mean. Compared to Vietnamese prices, we definitely save money. I'm not happy about the waste created, but at least we're in the country where everything goes to get recycled already. On the other hand, there are also good quality Chinese brands (Dong Chen power tools, for example, or Timemore coffee equipment). But they're not that cheap.

jjmarr 1y ago
The real question is why Chinese companies aren't investing in brand development in Western countries.
- SV_BubbleTime 1y ago
  We have our products knocked off in China… we did work to shut them down, but another just pops up with a different name. They weren’t developing brand because they weren’t developing products.
- 7bit 1y ago
  Because they don't want to be held responsible. They don't want to do QA. They don't want good quality products. They don't want warranties. They don't want to take back their broken products. They rather slap on a new name and continue selling their crap when the old brand product is being banned in the EU
- toast0 1y ago
  Managing a brand in Western countries is a totally different job than producing product and sending it out. It's also hard to manage things in countries where you aren't. The importers that find these goods, buy inventory, sell locally for a markup, and provide warranty service are providing a valuable function in the economy and have earned some markup.
- esperent 1y ago
  There's loads. Anker, Lenovo, BYD, Timemore, Xiaomi, TCL, HiSense, Haier, Huawei, TikTok.
- libertine 1y ago
  This might be a controversial take, but here it goes: the vast majority of Chinese brands are really bad at marketing to Western audiences. There are a few good ones, but they had to do what was necessary. For example, to increase the appeal of electric vehicles - they hired German industrial designers from European automakers. The few ones that come to mind are Huawei, DJI, and arguably Xiaomi. Then, of course, you have niche companies with great products that market mainly through influencers, such as Bambulab. There are also plenty of niche products from Chinese brands with high quality. But the vast majority are sloppy, lack "good taste" (which is subjective to culture), compete mainly on price, and from my understanding, they haven't developed their own identity - or at least popularized it in Western countries. For example, Japanese companies' marketing, and even the marketing in Japan, has an appeal to Western audiences because of cultural exchanges (from products to media for many decades). It's unique and original to them, and Western audiences cherish it.
AlexandrB 1y ago
In some product categories, it's all the same junk. I was researching dehumidifiers a few years ago and the consensus seemed to be that regardless of brand you can expect it to fail in 2-3 years because internally they all use the same cheap Chinese components. So why not buy an AFLUUHOO dehumidifier instead of a name brand one? There are also markets where the markup on brand names is insane. For example: take a water pump, then brand it an "aquarium water pump", and suddenly you can charge 4x more for the same thing. Here even bad quality Chinese products win out because the cost is so much less (and it's not even certain that the quality is inferior since the brand names are also made in china). Finally, I can't stress what a negative purchasing signal "smart"/IoT features are for me. Perhaps some people love having online accounts for their lightbulbs and waiting around for the manufacturer to brick their devices, but it's not my cup of tea. Chinese devices often either lack smart features or use Bluetooth + a very basic app with no logins required. Another win.
- esperent 1y ago
  > and it's not even certain that the quality is inferior since the brand names are also made in china Well, even from the same factory, different levels of quality control are done, and different materials are used. For example, the last few days I've been researching a cordless drill. It seems that Total/Ingco are Chinese brands made in the same factory (they just change the plastic color and logo), and it also seems highly likely that the factory also makes DeWalt. However, while the DeWalt drills look very similar, they're also visibly higher quality plastic, and when I found a comparison video of the three, the DeWalt was also more powerful, had additional features and was just clearly the better choice. On the other hand, it's about three times more expensive and the consensuses seems to be that Total/Ingco are not terrible - probably fine for a homeowner who does occasional handiwork. Personally I went with a DongChen drill and using it for a few jobs I think I made a good choice. It's strong, feels heavy and solid. However, I've also got a couple of small Total items like a current tester pen, and it's fine. Lasted a few years of occasional use so far.