3 ms·

And yet uber and Airbnb and polymarket and…

landl0rd 1y ago
These are at some level businesses that do well because they avoid regulatory regimes. That risk is built-in from day one and basically their raison d'etre. I happen to think that's fine and good, but it's still the case. In other words, the guys who actually believe in a normal level of compliance are hamstrung, defection is rewarded, classic failure mode of this kind of thing.
- quotemstr 1y ago
  IOW, America also has a stagnant, risk-averse business culture, except that superimposed on this culture there's a thin, fragile, layer of risk taking, one geography- and sector-constrained, but in which ~all US value creation and economic differentiation happens. It's like how the growth of a tree trunk happens in a thin layer beneath the bark and the rest is inert wood.
  - tomcam 1y ago
    You’re right IMHO, but now look at what it’s like to build a business in places like France or England or China or India and you’ll learn we are in a place with an order of magnitude less trouble building a business. Frightening.
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      > we are in a place with an order of magnitude less trouble building a business. What is this claim based on? Is there 10x as much stress among French business owners? Are entrepreneurs working 10x as hard in China? Are there 10x fewer businesses in England? And, stepping back a bit: To the extent that running a business is easier in America, how much of that is because the US exploits and bullies the rest of the world? How much is because it's a huge country with vast resources (that were stolen from its murdered inhabitants)? How much is because the lack of regulations allows for rampant externalization of costs? How much is because businesses are more 'free' to exploit their own workers? How much is because most of the mechanisms for basic accountability are broken? These aren't "gotcha" questions. They're fundamentally important to our future, because none of that is sustainable.
      - tomcam 1y ago
        >> we are in a place with an order of magnitude less trouble building a business. > What is this claim based on? Blog posts I've read from I've read, largely in HN. Personal interviews in those countries. > Is there 10x as much stress among French business owners? Are entrepreneurs working 10x as hard in China? Are there 10x fewer businesses in England? No clue. I've run many businesses and it's all stressful. > And, stepping back a bit: To the extent that running a business is easier in America, how much of that is because the US exploits and bullies the rest of the world? The US definitely exploits and bullies the rest of the world. Very often it's shameful and I hate it. All countries exploit other countries in their best interest. You may also be forgetting that for centuries the US has policed the world's waterways mostly in its own interest but, from about 1945-2020, for the rest of the world too, all at its own expense. We've been the leaders in anti-pirate forces since Jefferson. > How much is because it's a huge country with vast resources A lot. We are the luckiest country on Earth by a country mile. But also because of somewhat free markets, rule of law, somewhat free press, property rights, and constitutional belief in the individual. Japan doesn't have a huge country with vast resources but still does well. Canada and many countries in Africa have vast resources they could exploit responsibly but don't. > (that were stolen from its murdered inhabitants)? All countries are stolen from murdered inhabitants. All of them. Look at the Comanche, the Huns, the Houthis, the Japanese in WWII, the Goths, the Chinese, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Dutch, and Luxembourg. OK I'm kidding about Luxembourg. > How much is because the lack of regulations allows for rampant externalization of costs? Super complex question and a good one. Impossible to deal with in a comment. > How much is because businesses are more 'free' to exploit their own workers? Zero. No one forces you to work here, unless you're one of the hundred of thousands of trafficked workers here. Those traffickers should be hunted down and shot. > How much is because most of the mechanisms for basic accountability are broken? Don't know. We have huge corrupt corporations and a huge corrupt government working hand in hand against the citizens, but we also have tons of regulations and a justice system that can still help the little guy sometimes. You are absolutely on the right track, but we might have different definitions for accountability. However since we're comparing the USA to others Mexico and China are shot through with corruption, China more perhaps than any other country on earth. Though we give them a run for their money. > These aren't "gotcha" questions. They're fundamentally important to our future, because none of that is sustainable. I sort of think you played your hand. The term "none of that is sustainable" suggests to me you've already decided on answers to all these non-gotcha questions. But I tried to answer them in the best light.
  - foldr 1y ago
    Airbnb has created a lot of value for its shareholders. I think it’s an open question whether it’s been a net negative or positive for the world at large when you consider all the externalities.
    - red-iron-pine 1y ago
      this sounds unironically like that comic where the businessman is talking to kids around a fire with ruins in the background "yeah we destroyed the world, but for a short glorious moment we created a lot of value for the shareholders" or the one about how they're proud they built the Torment Nexus
      - foldr 1y ago
        I just mean that people who invested in Airbnb made money. Do you disagree? The “value creation” language comes from the comment I’m replying to.

These are at some level businesses that do well because they avoid regulatory regimes. That risk is built-in from day one and basically their raison d'etre. I happen to think that's fine and good, but it's still the case. In other words, the guys who actually believe in a normal level of compliance are hamstrung, defection is rewarded, classic failure mode of this kind of thing.

quotemstr 1y ago
IOW, America also has a stagnant, risk-averse business culture, except that superimposed on this culture there's a thin, fragile, layer of risk taking, one geography- and sector-constrained, but in which ~all US value creation and economic differentiation happens. It's like how the growth of a tree trunk happens in a thin layer beneath the bark and the rest is inert wood.
- tomcam 1y ago
  You’re right IMHO, but now look at what it’s like to build a business in places like France or England or China or India and you’ll learn we are in a place with an order of magnitude less trouble building a business. Frightening.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    > we are in a place with an order of magnitude less trouble building a business. What is this claim based on? Is there 10x as much stress among French business owners? Are entrepreneurs working 10x as hard in China? Are there 10x fewer businesses in England? And, stepping back a bit: To the extent that running a business is easier in America, how much of that is because the US exploits and bullies the rest of the world? How much is because it's a huge country with vast resources (that were stolen from its murdered inhabitants)? How much is because the lack of regulations allows for rampant externalization of costs? How much is because businesses are more 'free' to exploit their own workers? How much is because most of the mechanisms for basic accountability are broken? These aren't "gotcha" questions. They're fundamentally important to our future, because none of that is sustainable.
    - tomcam 1y ago
      >> we are in a place with an order of magnitude less trouble building a business. > What is this claim based on? Blog posts I've read from I've read, largely in HN. Personal interviews in those countries. > Is there 10x as much stress among French business owners? Are entrepreneurs working 10x as hard in China? Are there 10x fewer businesses in England? No clue. I've run many businesses and it's all stressful. > And, stepping back a bit: To the extent that running a business is easier in America, how much of that is because the US exploits and bullies the rest of the world? The US definitely exploits and bullies the rest of the world. Very often it's shameful and I hate it. All countries exploit other countries in their best interest. You may also be forgetting that for centuries the US has policed the world's waterways mostly in its own interest but, from about 1945-2020, for the rest of the world too, all at its own expense. We've been the leaders in anti-pirate forces since Jefferson. > How much is because it's a huge country with vast resources A lot. We are the luckiest country on Earth by a country mile. But also because of somewhat free markets, rule of law, somewhat free press, property rights, and constitutional belief in the individual. Japan doesn't have a huge country with vast resources but still does well. Canada and many countries in Africa have vast resources they could exploit responsibly but don't. > (that were stolen from its murdered inhabitants)? All countries are stolen from murdered inhabitants. All of them. Look at the Comanche, the Huns, the Houthis, the Japanese in WWII, the Goths, the Chinese, the Spanish, the Portuguese, the Dutch, and Luxembourg. OK I'm kidding about Luxembourg. > How much is because the lack of regulations allows for rampant externalization of costs? Super complex question and a good one. Impossible to deal with in a comment. > How much is because businesses are more 'free' to exploit their own workers? Zero. No one forces you to work here, unless you're one of the hundred of thousands of trafficked workers here. Those traffickers should be hunted down and shot. > How much is because most of the mechanisms for basic accountability are broken? Don't know. We have huge corrupt corporations and a huge corrupt government working hand in hand against the citizens, but we also have tons of regulations and a justice system that can still help the little guy sometimes. You are absolutely on the right track, but we might have different definitions for accountability. However since we're comparing the USA to others Mexico and China are shot through with corruption, China more perhaps than any other country on earth. Though we give them a run for their money. > These aren't "gotcha" questions. They're fundamentally important to our future, because none of that is sustainable. I sort of think you played your hand. The term "none of that is sustainable" suggests to me you've already decided on answers to all these non-gotcha questions. But I tried to answer them in the best light.
- foldr 1y ago
  Airbnb has created a lot of value for its shareholders. I think it’s an open question whether it’s been a net negative or positive for the world at large when you consider all the externalities.
  - red-iron-pine 1y ago
    this sounds unironically like that comic where the businessman is talking to kids around a fire with ruins in the background "yeah we destroyed the world, but for a short glorious moment we created a lot of value for the shareholders" or the one about how they're proud they built the Torment Nexus
    - foldr 1y ago
      I just mean that people who invested in Airbnb made money. Do you disagree? The “value creation” language comes from the comment I’m replying to.