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Apple asks court to ban Samsung’s Galaxy Note and Galaxy S III from US
- logn 14y agoIt's too bad it's not the iPad being banned or people might actually care and we'd get some badly needed IP reform.
- corporalagumbo 14y agoNever fear, I actually patented thin rectangular prisms 20 years ago - my lawyers are preparing the case now. (Of course, Apple is only one of many, many companies who will soon be paying for their insipid copycatting)
- beedogs 14y agoI used to be on Apple's side; now they're just bullies. I don't think I'll buy anything from them ever again.
- recoiledsnake 14y agoIt's too late. I don't think people angry at the patent suits pulling out is going to make any difference to Apple at this juncture. They know developers are disposable. Not to mention that a significant percentage of their fanbase is cheering them on.
- cageface 14y agoDear Apple, Go fuck yourself. signed, a former iOS developer and Apple fan
- neya 14y agoExactly what I wanted to type. Upvoted.
- pemmigiwhoseit 14y agoCouldn't agree more, my family has had macs for probably about 8-10 years. I was going to buy an iphone in December when my 2-year contract finished, but I almost certainly will not. Simply because I do not want to support such utter bullshit.
- cageface 14y agoI recently swapped out my iPhone 4S for a Galaxy S3 and I was a bit apprehensive given my pretty mixed impressions of Android from a few years ago. But really I prefer the S3 in almost every way now and wonder why I put up with the limitations of the iPhone for so long. If you do switch I think you'll be happy.
- dsirijus 14y agoI've used 4S and S2 in parallel for 8 months now. Though I personally prefer Android OS, I must admit that build quality is now strongly coming as a win for Apple. S2 is now a little flimsy, 4S is as new.
- cageface 14y agoThe 4S does feel a little more solid than the S3 too, but I'm happy not to have the extra weight in my pocket. I've also seen a lot of iPhones with big cracks in the glass in the back and I'm happy I can just swap out the plastic back of the S3 with a cheap replacement if necessary.
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- bo1024 14y agoI'm certainly disappointed in Apple's use of the patent system here, but we need to fix the patent system as a whole. Apple wouldn't have acted this way unless our patent system created the opportunity and the incentive. And if it wasn't Apple, it would have been someone else sooner or later. So you can be mad at Apple if you want, but what's really messed up is a patent system that makes this behavior profitable.
- beedogs 14y agoI'm absolutely mad at both. Apple wouldn't be using the patent system as a cudgel if it couldn't be used in that way. Patent reform should be the top priority in the tech industry, but they're all too busy using it to batter each other to death. Apple's just the latest and highest-profile aggressor. What I'd love to see, in place of this fiasco, is a tech summit, led by companies like Google, Samsung, and Apple, to thrash out a proposal for reform. Put all those high-profile, high-paid lawyers to good use.
- bo1024 14y agoAgreed. I think the answer is simple and everyone knows it -- NO SOFTWARE PATENTS -- but getting everyone to agree to it will be tough.
- lusr 14y agoI don't follow this logic. "I'm certainly disappointed in the pervert's use of the open curtains here, but we need to fix open curtains as a whole." Apple are still responsible for the ethics of their actions, regardless of the legality of those actions.
- bo1024 14y agoOur legal system has no room for ethics. If the rules of the game make it profitable to be evil, companies will probably be evil. They might not be, but it'll be an uphill battle. If we redesign the rules so that being evil is not profitable, that will make it a whole lot easier on everyone. Of course, actually doing so won't be easy, because the status quo benefits most influential players...
- mrich 14y agoMore detailed info would be helpful. What infringement is Apple alleging in this case? For the S III, they have to rely more and more on bogus software patents since it is very different from an iPhone. Their fear is very visible.
- jemeshsu 14y agoI guess Apple is fearing Samsung's success in suing LTE in new iPhone 5 thus banning iPhone 5 sale in US.
- darylteo 14y agoIf that were the case then they SHOULDN'T be doing this... they're just inciting further reaction. Mutally Assured Destruction (MAD) is quite literal, in this case.
- josephlord 14y agoIn what way are they bogus? Because all software patents shouldn't be granted? Because you have studied them deeply, fully understand their claims and believe there is prior art or no inventive step (the current requirement for the inventive step seem very low, do you think that this is not being met or you believe the standard should be higher)? The patents have now withstood not only the flawed patent office examination but have been tested in court. The presumption should now be that they are valid and not bogus unless you provide justification or at least explanation of your view. Samsung/Google should also presume validity and develop a workaround while the case is pending to strengthen their negotiating position and remove risk of a ban. This doesn't mean that they have to stop fighting legally. Edit: A reply suggests I may have been wrong to believe that these are the patents that were tested in court. If I was wrong the advice would probably be to plan potential workarounds but not carry them out.
- sciwiz 14y agoNone of these software patents have been tested in court.
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- stinos 14y agoI find the worst part about this whole war is that in the end it's purely about money and nothing else. So now, because some dickheads want more of it while they already have enough, people are denied access to what seems a pretty decent device.
- Tichy 14y agoI found it funny when the jury foreman said "we only wanted to award a reasonable amount of damages". One billion dollars for rounded corners? I wonder if one billion dollars would have seemed like a reasonable amount of money before the financial crisis with it's monster bailouts.
- sbuk 14y agoIf you took the time to actually read the verdict, you'd see that claim was dismissed. Also, it's not a patent on rounded corners, it's a design patent, which is essentially a patent granted on the ornamental design of a functional item that pretty much every other manufacture has managed not to plagiarise. And what the hell has the "financial crisis" got to do with this? Is suppose that's the jury's fault too now? edit: language
- Tichy 14y agoFinancial crisis: because one billion dollar suddenly is "a reasonable amount of money".
- sbuk 14y agoI'd suggest that the figure became a reasonable amount when both litigant started turning over several multiples of that figure per quarter. It's the effect of general inflatin on economies.
- codeka 14y agoSo this is the same case being tried in front of Judge Koh? I'm not sure what patents in particular they say are being infringed here, but it can't be the trade dress stuff -- Samsung's stuff have moved away from being obvious ripoffs of Apple's products and the Galaxy SIII looks no more like an iPhone than any other smartphone from any other manufacturer. If it's the pinch-to-zoom and bounce-back patents (etc) then it shouldn't be hard for Samsung to issue an update to workaround those patents. In fact, I mentioned in another comment[1] but I'm pretty sure Android (not sure about Samsung's modified version of Android) doesn't infringe on the pinch-to-zoom patent anyway, because Android allows scrolling with two fingers. Obviously, I'm no patent expert, though... [1]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4441202 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4441202
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- tsotha 14y agoLitigious bastards.
- hadem 14y agoEven as a fan of Apple, I find this ridiculous. It will be the consumers who lose if Apple wins.
- rustynails77 14y agoThankyou! This is about the consumers - we mustn't lose sight of that.
- v0cab 14y agoConsumers are also people who need jobs. If Asian companies can just clone our products and block our products from sale in their countries, there will be fewer jobs for Americans, Europeans and Australians.
- jlgreco 14y agoAh yes, when in doubt, fall back on good old xenophobia. It was only a matter of time really, you can always count on somebody dredging up xenophobia if there are not rational arguments to be made.
- v0cab 14y agoWhat do you classify as 'xenophobia'? How can I avoid falling victim to it? How can I make my arguments more rational in future? For what it's worth, I have lived in Asia for several years, speak three languages, and my opinions are influenced by the Korean economist Ha-Joon Chang, so I'm trying my best.
- capo 14y agoThe four new patents Apple is leveraging against Samsung include the '647 "Data Detectors" patent, the '721 "Slide-to-unlock" property, the '172 "Word completion" invention and the '604 "Universal search" patent. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/31/apple_adds_samsungs_flagship_galaxy_s_iii_galaxy_note_to_amended_galaxy_nexus_complaint.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/31/apple_adds_sam... Just broad nonsensical software patents that shouldn't have been granted in the first place. I hope Samsung fights this as I think they have a much better chance in winning even a jury trial against these, I mean why hasn't anyone invalidated these patents yet?! P.S. I'm not clear as to when Apple is hoping to ban these devices, at the December hearing? earlier? next year? I would appreciate a clarification. Edit: trial date is set for March 2014 according to this http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443618604577624410538954138.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239639044361860457762...
- wiedzmin 14y agoIm certain t9's autocomplete could be counted as prior art.
- sciwiz 14y agoSeveral European courts threw out the slide to unlock patent, as there was prior art with a Neonode phone. Judge Posner, with whom Apple tried to argue that a tap is a zero length swipe, and Judge Koh were skeptical of the validity of the slide to unlock patent.
- josephlord 14y agoSlide to unlock doesn't seem broad to me. It seems easy to workaround by requiring a swipe but not moving the image until the end of the swipe or requiring a pattern of taps. There may be prior art as another poster claims, I haven't studied it but it doesn't look too broad to me.
- sciwiz 14y agoSamsung doesn't implement the slide to unlock action on a predetermined path. On 2012 phones, it's just swipe anywhere along any direction for a certain distance. IIRC, onn the 2011 phones it was slide the lockscreen wallpaper in any direction.
- modarts 14y agoWhat the hell is up with Apple? I'm usually all for fierce competition, but this vindictive bullshit goes above and beyond that.
- gurkendoktor 14y agoThe tool they're using to deliver the punch sucks (software patents). But I'm honestly baffled that HN doesn't emotionally understand Apple (maybe: Steve Jobs). Samsung has ripped off Apple wherever it could while being one of Apple's trusted suppliers, to the point where the SGS2 was considered THE iPhone contender. (Mostly anecdotal, though see [1].) Now Apple is throwing whatever they have at Samsung, this happens to include software patents. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VHzNEWIqA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4VHzNEWIqA ...?
- jlgreco 14y agoThere seems to be an odd mix of sentiment being expressed here in this discussion. On one hand some are suggesting that expecting ethics from a corporation is foolish, but on the other hand you are attributing their actions to an emotional response. Surely if the AAPL corporation is capable of experiencing emotion, it is capable of acting in an ethical manner instead of just a profit-seeking manner.
- gurkendoktor 14y ago> On one hand some are suggesting that expecting ethics from a corporation is foolish, but on the other hand you are attributing their actions to an emotional response. Different people saying different things is not new :) But this wouldn't be a contradiction if we were the same person either. Someone without ethics can very well react emotionally. I'm only speculating about the emotions at play - which I think do exist - I have no interest in judging ethics this time.
- vlad 14y agoSomething that hasn't been discussed: Samsung Galaxy Nexus (aka Google's phone) is on this list as well.
- cageface 14y agoI hope the people that have been dismissing Apple's recent win as a deserved and minor comeuppance for Samsung will at last see the light after this latest round of developments. Apple is clearly out to destroy Android, not just Samsung, and even a child can see that the S3 and the Note are not clones of anything Apple's made but instead products filling a demand Apple has refused to meet.
- kybernetikos 14y agoIn particular the note is pretty innovative (in the apple sense) in it's own right.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y agoIt is, and it holds little similarity to the iPhone.
- mtkd 14y agoWhat makes me rage about this more than anything is that there is no viable alt (for me) to OSX right now - for what I do. My next phone is an S3 though. Must be painful for Woz to watch.
- mlab 14y agoFaulty patent system IS NOT an excuse for Apple. Aftern Jobs died - real company face has revealed, not even worth to spit at. My iPhone is last device from this manufacturer, Samsung is so much superior, they also act like humans.
- patrickaljord 14y agoJobs is the one who wanted to go "thermonuclear" on Android, they are merely following his will as these prosecutions started before his passing.
- rustynails77 14y agoLet me gladly say "thank goodness for Apple - they force everyone to lift their game". Look at Apple's warranty - it's very good (eg. a "new for old" device swap for AU $180 when the device is out of warranty - even if you destroyed it yourself). Do not heap too much praise on Samsung - they have a very chequered history. Do not let Apple's reprehensible behaviour in this instance undermine the value that Apple has added in other ways. I would still consider buying an iPhone - and I recognise Apple for their unique talent in high polish of a product. I just want fair competition - I'd love Apple to think and act the same way.
- throwaway64 14y agothere is only one thing a corporation responds to meaningfully, loss or gain of money. Why would they give a flying fuck what you would "love them to be" if you still shovel fistfulls of money at them?
- greedo 14y agoSamsung is considered one of the most corrupt companies in Korea. Google "samsung corruption" for enlightenment. And thinking that this isn't exactly what Steve Jobs wanted to do had he lived is ignoring his explicit statements on the subject. All of this garment rending and teeth gnashing seems to be due to people getting far too emotionally invested in the companies involved. Apple is just a company, its products won't fill the hole in your life. Samsung too is just a company, not some Quixote tilting at windmills.
- dakrisht 14y agoThe biggest patent troll of the past 10 years. I'm ashamed of all the Apple products I own after what's been going on.
- mtgx 14y agoThis is getting ridiculous. It would be one thing if they went after TouchWiz, because I'd actually like Samsung give up on it, but going after them with these patents? I can't see how this is helping innovation at all. It's simply about blocking the competition from the market, plain and simple.
- danmaz74 14y agoAt this point, I hope that Samsung will be able to obtain bans for the future Apple LTE products, at least in Europe. MAYBE this way Apple will stop being the bully it is.
- sbuk 14y agoWill Samsung stop trying to bully companies into paying patent licenses twice or changing licensing term because a competitor is legitimately using encumbered parts?
- v0cab 14y agoLet us remember that Samsung have the South Korean government in their pocket, and they already acted to stop the iPhone from being sold for two years in South Korea when it was released, to give Samsung a chance to catch up and make more money from the domestic (South Korean) market. Why on earth is HackerNews so pro-Samsung?
- cageface 14y agoAbsolutely the last straw for me here. I've changed the price of all my apps to $999 and edited their descriptions to inform potential buyers that I'm pulling my apps in protest of Apple's policies. If the Apple gestapo doesn't yank my apps for me for this I'll pull them completely from the store myself as long as I've posted any updates for my existing customers required for iOS 6. Fun discovery made in the process: Apple won't allow you to use the word "Android" in the app description. Bye!
- v0cab 14y agoAnd how about Samsung? Their business practices are disgusting.
- r0s 14y agoCare to elaborate?
- josephlord 14y agoDo you currently have any Android apps? Are you going to pull them for Motorola, (now Google's) abuse of FRAND patents?
- josteink 14y agoI'll repeat my statement from when the 1 billion dollar verdict was made, since it seems like little will change before people vote with their wallets: Today Apple went down in history as the biggest patent-troll of all time, stiffling innovation and competition like nobody has ever done before. If you are a software-developer you should recognize the fundamental threat which Apple represents to your profession. Boycott Apple if you want to be able to stay in business in the long term future. Throw away your Macbooks, iPhones and iPads. Ditch your iTunes and iTunes account. Get rid of everything Apple. All of it. Be vocal about your code of ethical software conduct and how that prohibits involving anything made by Apple into anything you ever do.