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The only thing that endangers freedom here is the fact that there are centralized payment processors in the first place. There's an existing cure for that part

The only thing that endangers freedom here is the fact that there are centralized payment processors in the first place. There's an existing cure for that particular disease: Bitcoin.

KennyBlanken 1y ago
Tell me you know nothing about transaction overhead without telling me you know nothing about transaction overhead. All the blockchain currencies require orders of magnitude more power to process a transaction compared to a debit or credit transaction. Bitcoin is primarily used by governments (like NK), hacker groups, and organized crime to launder money. The solution is not blockchain currencies. European credit card transaction costs are a fraction of what they are in the US because US regulators just sat back and allowed Mastercard and VISA to establish a duopoly. In much of the rest of the world it's also possible to near-instantly wire-transfer funds to pay for things, at negligible cost. In the US, everything is forced to go through the federal reserve, is expensive, and slow. We are the laughing stock of the rest of the world. The banks have tried to set up alternatives. Zelle is a good example, but Zelle's most annoying problem is that you can only have one account per phone number or email address.
- nikolas- 1y ago
  > everything is forced to go through the federal reserve, is expensive, and slow. This isn't entirely accurate, there is a private clearing house that supports instant payments in the United States. https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/CHIPS https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/CHIPS https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/rtp https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/rtp
kelseyfrog 1y ago
The cure is worse than the disease
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  Really? Feel like specifying so in an informed and rational way? I mean, you claim a system of voluntary, consensual payments that people can decide or not to use vs. formal channels depending on their need for avoiding politically charged bullshittery and financial censorship of all sorts is somehow worse than... the long arm of major governments and their corporate partners to restrict whatever they please for whatever political reasons they please at any time? Truly, the irrational crypto hatred by some on this site is the stuff of idiot parody.
  - kelseyfrog 1y ago
    [flagged]
corranh 1y ago
Putting aside the question of whether Bitcoin is even useful for transactions or if it’s just ‘number go up’ technology, Bitcoin processors don’t let Businesses accept Bitcoin for adult content either. See e.g. https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003105543-Can-I-use-BitPay-in-my-industry https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003105543-Ca...
- numpad0 1y ago
  You don't need payment processors to exchange Bitcoin, or rather, the processors are P2P'd and compensated by code enforced transaction fee. I guess those can be banned by manually correlating wallet addresses with known "terrorist" groups, but we haven't reached that stage yet. The downside of not using commercial "off-chain" processors for Bitcoin or most true decentralized cryptocurrencies is that latency of a proper, classic, fully secure, "on-chain" transaction is something like up to 15 minutes. At least it was that much last time I looked at it.
- drdaeman 1y ago
  Why would one possibly need a SaaS payment processor for crypto? Unlike with traditional banking, running your own crypto node and processing network transactions is not some huge investment that one may want to offload to a third party.
  - thunderfork 1y ago
    [dead]
  - Muromec 1y ago
    To offload dealing with problems (technical and legal) and risks to the processor. Like everything SAAS basically. If they get hacked, it's not your money being lost for example.
- duskwuff 1y ago
  And on the other side of the equation, exchanges observe where their customers' coins are going, and may blacklist customers who transact with suspicious counterparties (like coin mixers).
6yyyyyy 1y ago
Much evidence contradicts your theory.

The only thing that endangers freedom here is the fact that there are centralized payment processors in the first place. There's an existing cure for that particular disease: Bitcoin.

KennyBlanken 1y ago

Tell me you know nothing about transaction overhead without telling me you know nothing about transaction overhead. All the blockchain currencies require orders of magnitude more power to process a transaction compared to a debit or credit transaction. Bitcoin is primarily used by governments (like NK), hacker groups, and organized crime to launder money. The solution is not blockchain currencies. European credit card transaction costs are a fraction of what they are in the US because US regulators just sat back and allowed Mastercard and VISA to establish a duopoly. In much of the rest of the world it's also possible to near-instantly wire-transfer funds to pay for things, at negligible cost. In the US, everything is forced to go through the federal reserve, is expensive, and slow. We are the laughing stock of the rest of the world. The banks have tried to set up alternatives. Zelle is a good example, but Zelle's most annoying problem is that you can only have one account per phone number or email address.

nikolas- 1y ago
> everything is forced to go through the federal reserve, is expensive, and slow. This isn't entirely accurate, there is a private clearing house that supports instant payments in the United States. https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/CHIPS https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/CHIPS https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/rtp https://www.theclearinghouse.org/payment-systems/rtp

kelseyfrog 1y ago

The cure is worse than the disease

southernplaces7 1y ago
Really? Feel like specifying so in an informed and rational way? I mean, you claim a system of voluntary, consensual payments that people can decide or not to use vs. formal channels depending on their need for avoiding politically charged bullshittery and financial censorship of all sorts is somehow worse than... the long arm of major governments and their corporate partners to restrict whatever they please for whatever political reasons they please at any time? Truly, the irrational crypto hatred by some on this site is the stuff of idiot parody.
- kelseyfrog 1y ago
  [flagged]

corranh 1y ago

Putting aside the question of whether Bitcoin is even useful for transactions or if it’s just ‘number go up’ technology, Bitcoin processors don’t let Businesses accept Bitcoin for adult content either. See e.g. https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003105543-Can-I-use-BitPay-in-my-industry https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003105543-Ca...

numpad0 1y ago
You don't need payment processors to exchange Bitcoin, or rather, the processors are P2P'd and compensated by code enforced transaction fee. I guess those can be banned by manually correlating wallet addresses with known "terrorist" groups, but we haven't reached that stage yet. The downside of not using commercial "off-chain" processors for Bitcoin or most true decentralized cryptocurrencies is that latency of a proper, classic, fully secure, "on-chain" transaction is something like up to 15 minutes. At least it was that much last time I looked at it.
drdaeman 1y ago
Why would one possibly need a SaaS payment processor for crypto? Unlike with traditional banking, running your own crypto node and processing network transactions is not some huge investment that one may want to offload to a third party.
- thunderfork 1y ago
  [dead]
- Muromec 1y ago
  To offload dealing with problems (technical and legal) and risks to the processor. Like everything SAAS basically. If they get hacked, it's not your money being lost for example.
duskwuff 1y ago
And on the other side of the equation, exchanges observe where their customers' coins are going, and may blacklist customers who transact with suspicious counterparties (like coin mixers).

6yyyyyy 1y ago

Much evidence contradicts your theory.