4 ms·
That seems excessively skeptical to me. You don't know what an animal is feeling, in the sense that you don't know other minds exist, but I think when animal b
by Dove 14y ago
That seems excessively skeptical to me. You don't know what an animal is feeling, in the sense that you don't know other minds exist, but I think when animal behavior makes emotional sense, it's appropriate to interpret it that way.
Nor do I think it's that farfetched that birds should feel grief. A lot of animals display emotions that I identify with. I've seen pride and humiliation and saving face in cats. And dogs obviously feel joy and worry and mourning.
I understand the need to distinguish between what's likely and what's proven, but I also don't see a reason for the explanation to be complex. It looks like grief. I think it's more likely to be that than some alien phenomenon that happens to look like it.
- Scriptor 14y agoWe don't know what those birds are feeling, but we have no reason to assume it's grief over other feelings. At face value, they are making alarm calls and gathering around the dead body. Of course we don't know how birds display grief and maybe this is how they show it, but again we have no evidence for that. Thinking that their actions may be done to warn of poisonous food sources isn't as far-fetched as you make it out to be. It has a clear evolutionary benefit. As for grief, it is beneficial in tight communities as it helps strengthen social bonds. This is why people are less affected by the death of a stranger than that of a close relative. But blue jays are not highly social animals and the dead bird in question is one they have never seen before anyway. Scientifically, grief is actually one of the less likely possibilities as there doesn't seem to be any reason why they would grieve an unknown bird. And does grief really make emotional sense? When a person finds a body on the street, what do they do? They call for help. Afterwards a crowd may gather as the police cordon off the area. But the crowd isn't grieving, they're simply morbidly curious.
- jkbyc 14y ago> And dogs obviously feel joy and worry and mourning. It's not so obvious. Especially with domestic animals, the kind of behaviour you are describing may have evolved in order to survive in humans' company. Recommended reading: Daniel Dennett's Kinds of Minds ( http://www.amazon.com/Kinds-Of-Minds-Understanding-Consciousness/dp/0465073514 http://www.amazon.com/Kinds-Of-Minds-Understanding-Conscious... ) Wittgenstein on what a lion would say if he could speak: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=628eVJgHD6I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=628eVJgHD6I (This is a very pleasant pineapple)
- Evbn 14y agoSo they have evolved these emotions...