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Amazon's Emissions Climbed 6% in 2024 on Data Center Buildout

56 points by belter 1y ago

JCM9 1y ago
Now that Amazon is trying to convince folks they haven’t fallen behind on AI they’ve quietly stopped talking about how they’re slashing greenhouse gas emissions. Funny how that works.
breakyerself 1y ago
It seems to me that it's normal that our overall demand for energy is growing. It's a failure of policy over a long period that has lead to these bullshit outcomes.
- asdff 1y ago
  Consumer energy per capita in the u.s. has been flat for a long time and even declining. Increased demand for energy is in fact a reversal of prevailing trends over the past couple of decades.
  - Scarblac 1y ago
    Isn't part of that caused by moving production to China?
    - asdff 1y ago
      Consider the average american life over the last 100 years and how power demands changed. We went from gas to induction stoves. Furnace to electric heating. From ice boxes to refrigerators. From high ceilings to AC units. From books to TVs and then to TVs in every room. Compute hardware wise most people are using probably 5% of their cpu to web browse. Once we hit the 90s, what are even the sources for added consumption in American households? We hit all the big ticket power sucking items already, like refrigeration and AC.
      - breakyerself 1y ago
        I think when energy hits a certain price point and stays there for a long time it makes sense to try to squeeze more productivity out of the same quantity of energy, but then when energy comes down in cost it opens up possibilities that were cost prohibitive before. The short term trend was towards lower per capital use, but over the long term new cheaper forms of energy drive demand up.
blibble 1y ago
remember guys, cut your beef consumption, drive less and have fewer foreign holidays (preferably none) this will allow the hyperscalers to build more DCs to make you completely redundant, so that bezos can have a 3rd fleet of jets
- Spivak 1y ago
  This implies that Amazon is The Paperclip AI and is just building data centers for no purpose and isn't using them or is using them for non-productive means like Bezos' gaming rig. But they're not, they're building out data centers because the world demands more AWS capacity. Shouldering the emissions from this on Amazon, unless you believe they're being particularly inefficient about it, is shooting the messenger.
  - itake 1y ago
    We are in the early phase of VC fueled pollution. Its the same as when Uber launched. VCs suppress prices, to create demand ($5 Uber rides anywhere in the city) which generates more transactions, which generates more pollution. Instead of a alternative lower cost transportation (like BART or muni), SF residents chose the highest environmental impact and lowest cost option.
    - wskinner 1y ago
      Amazon’s capex is not funded by venture capital. It is funded by people buying things from Amazon or services from AWS. Uber hasn’t raised from VCs in years, and their business is far bigger than it was back when they were losing money. The idea that SF residents choose to use Uber rather than BART because Uber is cheaper is simply wrong - Uber is much more expensive than BART, and with some notable exceptions for shared rides, that was true during the VC funded growth period as well.
      - itake 1y ago
        It doesn't matter the source of the capital. VCs, public companies, bank loans, public or private investors. it doesn't matter. The cost of these services is artificially suppressed to drive adoption, at the cost of our environment. > The idea that SF residents choose to use Uber rather than BART because Uber is cheaper is simply wrong When I lived in SF. Uber and Lyft cost between free and $5 to go anywhere in the city. Yes, $5 is more than the $2.75. But for price of a cup of coffee more, Uber would pick you up and drop you off exactly where you needed. Taking muni or bart involved walking, waiting, more waiting, and then more walking.
wskinner 1y ago
Higher energy consumption translates to higher standards of living and better outcomes for everyone.
- belter 1y ago
  Here is a video you must see urgently :-) https://youtu.be/F-QA2rkpBSY https://youtu.be/F-QA2rkpBSY
tootie 1y ago
Having no experience in the field, is there a reason they don't drill ground source heat pumps for data centers? If the biggest power draw is climate control, ground source has the lowest operational cost.

56 points by belter 1y ago

JCM9 1y ago

Now that Amazon is trying to convince folks they haven’t fallen behind on AI they’ve quietly stopped talking about how they’re slashing greenhouse gas emissions. Funny how that works.

breakyerself 1y ago

It seems to me that it's normal that our overall demand for energy is growing. It's a failure of policy over a long period that has lead to these bullshit outcomes.

asdff 1y ago
Consumer energy per capita in the u.s. has been flat for a long time and even declining. Increased demand for energy is in fact a reversal of prevailing trends over the past couple of decades.
- Scarblac 1y ago
  Isn't part of that caused by moving production to China?
  - asdff 1y ago
    Consider the average american life over the last 100 years and how power demands changed. We went from gas to induction stoves. Furnace to electric heating. From ice boxes to refrigerators. From high ceilings to AC units. From books to TVs and then to TVs in every room. Compute hardware wise most people are using probably 5% of their cpu to web browse. Once we hit the 90s, what are even the sources for added consumption in American households? We hit all the big ticket power sucking items already, like refrigeration and AC.
    - breakyerself 1y ago
      I think when energy hits a certain price point and stays there for a long time it makes sense to try to squeeze more productivity out of the same quantity of energy, but then when energy comes down in cost it opens up possibilities that were cost prohibitive before. The short term trend was towards lower per capital use, but over the long term new cheaper forms of energy drive demand up.

blibble 1y ago

remember guys, cut your beef consumption, drive less and have fewer foreign holidays (preferably none) this will allow the hyperscalers to build more DCs to make you completely redundant, so that bezos can have a 3rd fleet of jets

Spivak 1y ago
This implies that Amazon is The Paperclip AI and is just building data centers for no purpose and isn't using them or is using them for non-productive means like Bezos' gaming rig. But they're not, they're building out data centers because the world demands more AWS capacity. Shouldering the emissions from this on Amazon, unless you believe they're being particularly inefficient about it, is shooting the messenger.
- itake 1y ago
  We are in the early phase of VC fueled pollution. Its the same as when Uber launched. VCs suppress prices, to create demand ($5 Uber rides anywhere in the city) which generates more transactions, which generates more pollution. Instead of a alternative lower cost transportation (like BART or muni), SF residents chose the highest environmental impact and lowest cost option.
  - wskinner 1y ago
    Amazon’s capex is not funded by venture capital. It is funded by people buying things from Amazon or services from AWS. Uber hasn’t raised from VCs in years, and their business is far bigger than it was back when they were losing money. The idea that SF residents choose to use Uber rather than BART because Uber is cheaper is simply wrong - Uber is much more expensive than BART, and with some notable exceptions for shared rides, that was true during the VC funded growth period as well.
    - itake 1y ago
      It doesn't matter the source of the capital. VCs, public companies, bank loans, public or private investors. it doesn't matter. The cost of these services is artificially suppressed to drive adoption, at the cost of our environment. > The idea that SF residents choose to use Uber rather than BART because Uber is cheaper is simply wrong When I lived in SF. Uber and Lyft cost between free and $5 to go anywhere in the city. Yes, $5 is more than the $2.75. But for price of a cup of coffee more, Uber would pick you up and drop you off exactly where you needed. Taking muni or bart involved walking, waiting, more waiting, and then more walking.

wskinner 1y ago

Higher energy consumption translates to higher standards of living and better outcomes for everyone.

belter 1y ago
Here is a video you must see urgently :-) https://youtu.be/F-QA2rkpBSY https://youtu.be/F-QA2rkpBSY

tootie 1y ago

Having no experience in the field, is there a reason they don't drill ground source heat pumps for data centers? If the biggest power draw is climate control, ground source has the lowest operational cost.