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>The reason I don't like those arguments is that they merge two orthogonal stuff: Solving problems and optimizing your tooling. You can optimize PyCharm just as

>The reason I don't like those arguments is that they merge two orthogonal stuff: Solving problems and optimizing your tooling. You can optimize PyCharm just as much you can fiddle with Vim's config. But you’re ignoring that the “optimizing tooling” is for the goal of making it easier for you. Its spending time now to decrease time spent in the long term. I spent over a decade with Emacs as my sole editor and have since spent over a decade with PyCharm. Day 1 of PyCharm already had practically everything that it took a decade to get working for Emacs, and more. It was pre-optimized for me, so I was able to spend more time working on my code. Did I need to spend time optimizing Emacs? No. But doing so added intellisense and the ability to jump around the codebase very quickly. You _can_ spend just as much time optimizing Emacs, but I didn’t _have_ to in order to get the same result. Or have I spent that much time optimizing it since, for even more functionality.

skydhash 1y ago
Emacs is not a python oriented IDE. So the comparison is moot from the beginning. Some people likes what Emacs offers and mesh it with external tools. Some prefers a more complete package. Nothing wrong with either, especially if you have the time and the knowledge to iterate quicly on the first. What you may need is something others can do without. So what’s best is always subjective.
- LeafItAlone 1y ago
  Sure. I think it’s odd for you to criticize someone’s reasons when you apparently just reject their underlying premise to begin with (which is, effectively, my experience with a particular open source tool isn’t the best for me and the one I found that does isn’t open source). Frankly, the idea of having 4 different ways of editing code, as you’ve described above, just seems like a nightmare to me. I like to have one tool that does it all and learn to use that tool well. The Jetbrains tooling allows me to do this with little of my time spent configuring it. If what you are using works well for you, then I think we should all be happy here.
  - skydhash 1y ago
    The point I was making was against conflating optimizing tooling and wasting time not solving problems. Not about going with an IDE or not. Everyone works differently. For most tasks, I prefer Emacs. But for pairing, VS code may be more familiar to others. And it’s hard to get rid of Android Studio and XCode if you’re doing mobile development. No one can judge workflow and tooling choices as long as the results are in.
shivasaxena 1y ago
If I may ask, why didn't you just use any available emacs config with python support? There are plenty on github, and ofc there's doom emacs, spacemacs, and probably others. I can tell you in my case it was because I did want to play with emacs and get my hands dirty. But that does shift the blame to me since it's hardly fair to blame emacs for being so extensible and fun.
- LeafItAlone 1y ago
  I did. I’ve done that and tried them all (granted this was a decade+ ago where the landscape was probably different). But there were all lacking full IDE features like what PyCharm gave me.

skydhash 1y ago

Emacs is not a python oriented IDE. So the comparison is moot from the beginning. Some people likes what Emacs offers and mesh it with external tools. Some prefers a more complete package. Nothing wrong with either, especially if you have the time and the knowledge to iterate quicly on the first. What you may need is something others can do without. So what’s best is always subjective.

LeafItAlone 1y ago
Sure. I think it’s odd for you to criticize someone’s reasons when you apparently just reject their underlying premise to begin with (which is, effectively, my experience with a particular open source tool isn’t the best for me and the one I found that does isn’t open source). Frankly, the idea of having 4 different ways of editing code, as you’ve described above, just seems like a nightmare to me. I like to have one tool that does it all and learn to use that tool well. The Jetbrains tooling allows me to do this with little of my time spent configuring it. If what you are using works well for you, then I think we should all be happy here.
- skydhash 1y ago
  The point I was making was against conflating optimizing tooling and wasting time not solving problems. Not about going with an IDE or not. Everyone works differently. For most tasks, I prefer Emacs. But for pairing, VS code may be more familiar to others. And it’s hard to get rid of Android Studio and XCode if you’re doing mobile development. No one can judge workflow and tooling choices as long as the results are in.

shivasaxena 1y ago

If I may ask, why didn't you just use any available emacs config with python support? There are plenty on github, and ofc there's doom emacs, spacemacs, and probably others. I can tell you in my case it was because I did want to play with emacs and get my hands dirty. But that does shift the blame to me since it's hardly fair to blame emacs for being so extensible and fun.

LeafItAlone 1y ago
I did. I’ve done that and tried them all (granted this was a decade+ ago where the landscape was probably different). But there were all lacking full IDE features like what PyCharm gave me.