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Possibly you omitted an (in America) from your original post? The first practical lithium ion battery car was either the Nissan Leaf or a weird Renault, dependi

Possibly you omitted an (in America) from your original post? The first practical lithium ion battery car was either the Nissan Leaf or a weird Renault, depending on how you define practical (the Renault Zoe was built on the same platform as the weird Renault whose name I can’t remember , but came out about a year later). Both came out before the model S (though I think not in the US). Really, the electric car revolution, such as it is, was largely driven by battery tech; lithium ion batteries crossed a threshold from not good enough (there were electric cars based on such batteries, notably some weird VW Golfs, but they did not sell well) to good enough. The rocket thing was more business case than tech; both the US and Soviet Union studied reusable rockets from at least the 70s, but the economics wasn’t compelling.

llbbdd 1y ago
I add "in America" to every post on here except the ones about EU tech regulations.
kubb 1y ago
I mean yeah I agree with you. What he did doesn't justify the idealized view of him that people have. It's just that he's in the news 24/7 so the perception of his importance and greatness gets imprinted on you regardless of whether you want it or not.
WalterBright 1y ago
> US and Soviet Union studied reusable rockets from at least the 70s, but the economics wasn’t compelling. What could be more compelling than reducing launch costs by 90%? "Studying" something and "delivering" something are very different things. > was largely driven by battery tech Regenerative braking was a crucial enabling technology. > The first practical lithium ion battery car was either the Nissan Leaf or a weird Renault Too bad they didn't take the world by storm like Tesla did. Tesla got the formula right, the others did not. The success of the Tesla speaks volumes.
- rsynnott 1y ago
  > What could be more compelling than reducing launch costs by 90%? You, ah, might be overselling that a bit. An Ariane 5 (20 tonnes to LEO) launch cost about 150 million at the time it was discontinued (launch costs for the new ones are murky as they've only launched a couple of payloads so far). A Proton launch (similar size) costs $65m. Atlas V Heavy (18 tonnes) costs $110-$190m. A Falcon 9 reusable launch (17 tonnes) costs $70m. Like, it's _cheaper_, but nowhere even remotely close to 90%. > Regenerative braking was a crucial enabling technology. Indeed! Given that it was invented in 1886, tho, I'm not sure what it has to do with Tesla. Apparently the first electric car with automatic regenerative braking was in 1967. The first really successful mass-market example would probably be the Toyota Prius (at least for cars; it's shown up in trams for a long, long time). The Leaf, of course, also had regenerative braking. > Too bad they didn't take the world by storm like Tesla did. Again, you're _really_ mostly talking about America. They're a little under 10% of the BEV market in Europe, about 5% in China. They were the best selling manufacturer in Europe for a couple of years, but were never enormously dominant.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    If everyone else did it before and better, why was Tesla such a breakout success?
    - queenkjuul 1y ago
      The leaf was also a breakout success, you're just pretending it wasn't
      - WalterBright 1y ago
        The investors in Tesla think otherwise. The Leaf is nothing like Tesla, as Tesla's success has shown.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    "Falcon 9’s price per pound to orbit is roughly $2,700, while NASA’s SLS is a whopping $70,000." https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/ https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cos...

llbbdd 1y ago

I add "in America" to every post on here except the ones about EU tech regulations.

kubb 1y ago

I mean yeah I agree with you. What he did doesn't justify the idealized view of him that people have. It's just that he's in the news 24/7 so the perception of his importance and greatness gets imprinted on you regardless of whether you want it or not.

WalterBright 1y ago

> US and Soviet Union studied reusable rockets from at least the 70s, but the economics wasn’t compelling. What could be more compelling than reducing launch costs by 90%? "Studying" something and "delivering" something are very different things. > was largely driven by battery tech Regenerative braking was a crucial enabling technology. > The first practical lithium ion battery car was either the Nissan Leaf or a weird Renault Too bad they didn't take the world by storm like Tesla did. Tesla got the formula right, the others did not. The success of the Tesla speaks volumes.

rsynnott 1y ago
> What could be more compelling than reducing launch costs by 90%? You, ah, might be overselling that a bit. An Ariane 5 (20 tonnes to LEO) launch cost about 150 million at the time it was discontinued (launch costs for the new ones are murky as they've only launched a couple of payloads so far). A Proton launch (similar size) costs $65m. Atlas V Heavy (18 tonnes) costs $110-$190m. A Falcon 9 reusable launch (17 tonnes) costs $70m. Like, it's _cheaper_, but nowhere even remotely close to 90%. > Regenerative braking was a crucial enabling technology. Indeed! Given that it was invented in 1886, tho, I'm not sure what it has to do with Tesla. Apparently the first electric car with automatic regenerative braking was in 1967. The first really successful mass-market example would probably be the Toyota Prius (at least for cars; it's shown up in trams for a long, long time). The Leaf, of course, also had regenerative braking. > Too bad they didn't take the world by storm like Tesla did. Again, you're _really_ mostly talking about America. They're a little under 10% of the BEV market in Europe, about 5% in China. They were the best selling manufacturer in Europe for a couple of years, but were never enormously dominant.
- WalterBright 1y ago
  If everyone else did it before and better, why was Tesla such a breakout success?
  - queenkjuul 1y ago
    The leaf was also a breakout success, you're just pretending it wasn't
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      The investors in Tesla think otherwise. The Leaf is nothing like Tesla, as Tesla's success has shown.
- WalterBright 1y ago
  "Falcon 9’s price per pound to orbit is roughly $2,700, while NASA’s SLS is a whopping $70,000." https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cost-falcon-9-vs-nasas-bill/ https://www.technowize.com/how-much-does-a-spacex-rocket-cos...