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> The average people won't agree to spend money on public transportation when there are robotaxi available 24/7 on "already existing infrastructure". 90% of pe
by rayiner 1y ago
> The average people won't agree to spend money on public transportation when there are robotaxi available 24/7 on "already existing infrastructure".
90% of people hate public transportation. They want to be in a private cabin that takes you directly to where you’re going.
There’s nothing you can do about it other than to impoverish the population. I have lots of immigrant family that move to NYC because that’s where our ethnic enclave is. They uniformly strive to move somewhere suburban where everyone can have their own car. My cousin just moved her family with three kids to Arlington Texas from Queens and is thrilled.
Elon is trying to address the problem people actually have instead of the one some minority thinks we should be solving.
- rsynnott 1y agoA good public transport system can be faster than driving, tho. Really take any city with a large metro system. And driving in such a city only works as well as it does because most people use the metro system. Move everyone to cars, and it grinds to a halt.
- seneca 1y agoIt's not just speed. Public transportation entails being closed in a small space with a completely uncontrolled group of the general public. When normal people think public transportation they aren't considering how well driving scales, they think cell phones blasting music out loud, homeless people, conversations on speaker phone, and random acts of violence. Until that is fixed, people are going to prefer private transportation.
- fragmede 1y agoIt is. Try living in a civilized country, rather than one who's people aren't known internationally for being rude and having guns.
- rayiner 1y agoNew York City doesn’t have guns but is dirty and full of rude people. Salt Lake City has lots of guns and is clean and full of really nice people.
- FireBeyond 1y agoSLC residents are perfectly capable of, and very happy to be rude to you and treat you with disdain for a multitude of reasons (and SLC is the most "tolerant" city in Utah. Anywhere out of downtown and you find that rapidly disappearing). My former employer was in SLC so I spent a lot of time there. NYC people are superficially rude, sure, as a stereotype. But when I've had a genuine issue or question, I've found most people there willing to help. SLC people are just as superficially "really nice", for that comparison.
- rsynnott 1y agoDo you actually regularly take public transport, or is this just what you imagine it to be like?
- queenkjuul 1y agoI think you know the answer to that question
- general1726 1y agoThis actually happened in 2002 and 2013 in Prague where subway temporarily ceased operations after flooding. Getting anywhere in the city was such a hell on earth, that walking or cycling was only kind-of reliable way to get around.
- josephcsible 1y ago> A good public transport system can be faster than driving, tho. Really take any city with a large metro system. Does DC count as having a large metro system? Because in DC, driving at the slowest, most congested time of day usually seems to be faster than the metro.
- rayiner 1y ago> Really take any city with a large metro system. Which city? It’s not true in New York City or Chicago. For the most part it’s not true even in Tokyo unless you’re talking about going between two tourist locations that are both right next to subway stations.
- keeda 1y agoIt's definitely true for New York City. (Statistically speaking, of course. Late night hours things change because traffic drops to negligible levels and train frequencies drop as well. But most people care about regular work hours on weekdays.)
- rayiner 1y agoIt’s not true even in New York City. I used to live at 86th and amsterdam and commute to 45th and lex. Google shows Monday at 8:30 am that’s a 27 minute drive or subway ride. That’s pretty much best case scenario for transit. Same address to our current NYC office at 55th and Park is a 15 minute drive versus a 30 minute train ride. And of course, living at 89th and Amsterdam is insanely expensive. In practice, the folks at my company that work in New York City live in Queens or Brooklyn. Their train commutes are an hour+, similar to how long it takes me to commute 36 miles from Annapolis to the west side of DC.
- general1726 1y agoPeople can hate as much as they want, but if getting from one part of the city to another takes 2 hours in a car and 20 minutes in a subway, people will take subway in 90% of cases.
- josephcsible 1y ago> if getting from one part of the city to another takes 2 hours in a car and 20 minutes in a subway But that's not the case anywhere, and there are no proposals that would even come close, unless you count ones that artificially slow down cars instead of making subways faster.
- general1726 1y agoThat's a case everywhere with subways, because car need to stop on lights for pedestrians, other cars and every intersection - while subway just goes?
- josephcsible 1y agoCan you name a specific pair of locations that I can plug in to Google Maps and see that outcome?
- mrpippy 1y agoHow about the World Trade Center to Yankee Stadium. Driving is 32 min with a $9 toll, or 38 min with no toll. Subway is 31 min with $3 fare. And this is a Sunday afternoon, I’m sure the drive gets dramatically worse on a weekday.
- josephcsible 1y ago> How about the World Trade Center to Yankee Stadium. Driving is 32 min with a $9 toll, or 38 min with no toll. Subway is 31 min with $3 fare. When I checked that route just now, I saw 31 minutes driving with a toll, 35 minutes driving without a toll, and 42 minutes on the subway. And even with your numbers, that's very, very far from the 2 hours vs. 20 minutes that was originally claimed. > And this is a Sunday afternoon, I’m sure the drive gets dramatically worse on a weekday. When I set a departure time of tomorrow at 5pm, it says 41 minutes on the subway and a range of 30-60 minutes for driving. (Still not even close to 2 hours vs. 20 minutes.)
- ben_w 1y agoAmericans might hate American public transport, but it doesn't have to suck like the stuff I saw there on my visits. I live in Berlin since 2018 and use public transport for almost every commute (almost, because a few times I just walked), and even used public transport when buying stuff from a building supply store. Don't get me wrong, it's slower than a car would be, but it's a really low-stress experience. I have not even owned a car since 2016.
- rayiner 1y ago> I live in Berlin since 2018 and use public transport for almost every commute How many kids do you have to drop off at school on your way to work? In Germany overall, 68% of people regularly drive, versus just 14% who use public transit: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/germans-commute-car-insincere-german-climate-policy https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/germans-commute-car-ins.... And Germany is about as dense overall as the state of Maryland, and well over twice as dense as California.
- debesyla 1y agoCrazy idea, but why do kids need dropping them off to school? If school is not further than 1 km, kid can just walk there. And in most German (and other European) cities schools are nearby. And for locations that are remote, there are school buses, and public buses too... Kid transportation is important, but it doesn't have to be cars. (I won't even go into kids who bycicle to their schools.) Of course, I understand that for kindergarten it's a different topic, but if we are taking about schools a person is already of age where they know where their home is and where they are going to.
- soupersales 1y agoFTFY: >> 90% of AMERICANS hate public transportation. Get out into the rest of the world and you'll see public transportation isn't some status simple that means your poor if you use it. Americans are just status conscious showoffs at the demise of their own surroundings.
- kingkawn 1y agoThis 90% figure is entirely untrue, just hyperbole to backup one off anecdotes
- bgwalter 1y agoThe privacy is an illusion though. I'd rather have a sensitive talk in the subway than in a car where everything is recorded and tracked.
- KaiserPro 1y agoCome to a place with working public transport, then try and argue that. I just want to get where I'm going cheaply, quickly and with the minimum of effort. In america, you need cars, outside of a few mega cities, because there is no public transport, and the stuff thats there is shite. People want to move out of NYC because its fucking expensive, and the space you want to raise a family is very expensive. You would move to queens, because it had good train links to nyc. But as they've not extended the lines in any meaningful way for ~40 years, queens is now too expensive. (in practice nothing really since the 50s.)
- rayiner 1y ago> Come to a place with working public transport, then try and argue that. I travel to Tokyo twice a year. When I came with my wife and three kids, we took an Uber everywhere because we could. I’ve also lived in Chicago, NYC, and DC. In all of those places, even if you’re rich enough to live right next to a subway station, driving is usually faster, you don’t have to walk at either end during hot weather or rain, and you don’t have to share a cabin with the general public.
- fragmede 1y ago> People want to move out of NYC because its fucking expensive If that were really true, demand for an NYC apartment would go down, and then prices would go down until people didn't want to move of NYC "because it's fucking expensive". Some people do actually want to live there!
- TacticalCoder 1y ago[dead]
- supplied_demand 1y ago== There’s nothing you can do about it other than to impoverish the population.== So dramatic. I know plenty of economically successful people who take public transportation. Visit Chicago, New York, London, Shanghai, Berlin, Paris, Tokyo, San Francisco and I bet you will see plenty of well-off people on public transit. Some of the richest places in the world, now that I think of it.
- queenkjuul 1y agoI don't know a single person like your described. Most everyone i know in Chicago takes public transit and rarely drives if they own a car at all. Surely you have a source for that 90% number, is what I'm saying.
- boroboro4 1y ago> 90% of people hate public transportation. They want to be in a private cabin that takes you directly to where you’re going. Where do you get this number from? I used public transportation as a kid, and now as an adult and I always loved it. I like the feeling of people around me, that’s why I, for example, live in a big city. I also can’t imagine my life without walking, and this makes me hate cars oriented cities. I also won’t be able to read on my phone while driving, and when taking uber I get sick (Waymo is better in this regard though). But overall point it’s very clear pros/cons in my mind, partly because of the experience, partly because I understand it’s a lot of people around and we need to live together more efficiently. A lot of people advocating for public transportation on these threads are showing there are def more than 10% of people liking it.