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> This is a huge change from past visions for America The America that limited citizenship to free White persons, and had an effectively Whites-only immigratio

> This is a huge change from past visions for America The America that limited citizenship to free White persons, and had an effectively Whites-only immigration policy until 1965 [1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Ac...

epistasis 1y ago
That was the starting point, but the vision for the future was to break down that hierarchy to lead to a more fair and prosperous society. We are at a point now where passing laws as were passed during the civil rights movement is completely unthinkable. Even laws advancing equality that were passed in the late 20th century are pretty unthinkable in today's environment. There revanchist movement has control of the government, the media, and much of society.
- like_any_other 1y ago
  It was certainly not the vision of the founders: Among the Romans emancipation required but one effort. The slave, when made free, might mix with, without staining the blood of his master. But with us a second is necessary, unknown to history. When freed, he is to be removed beyond the reach of mixture. - Thomas Jefferson [1] Even the lauded Abraham Lincoln advocated for the removal of freed Blacks, and made several attempts at it [2], and in the Douglas-Lincoln debates said: I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold oﬃce, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. [3] (His opponent, Stephen Douglas, was even more opposed to the idea.) [1] https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3h490t.html https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3h490t.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery#Colonization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery#Co... [3] Basler, The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Vol. II, pp. 235-236
  - epistasis 1y ago
    I agree. But perhaps where we differ is that I don't think America is not a constant set of ideas, to establish an unchanging status quo. But rather the one constant in America is a vision for a different and better future than the present or past. And this is what MAGA is fighting against. MAGA is a vision for regression towards less equality, more hierarchy, and less universal freedom.

epistasis 1y ago

That was the starting point, but the vision for the future was to break down that hierarchy to lead to a more fair and prosperous society. We are at a point now where passing laws as were passed during the civil rights movement is completely unthinkable. Even laws advancing equality that were passed in the late 20th century are pretty unthinkable in today's environment. There revanchist movement has control of the government, the media, and much of society.

like_any_other 1y ago
It was certainly not the vision of the founders: Among the Romans emancipation required but one effort. The slave, when made free, might mix with, without staining the blood of his master. But with us a second is necessary, unknown to history. When freed, he is to be removed beyond the reach of mixture. - Thomas Jefferson [1] Even the lauded Abraham Lincoln advocated for the removal of freed Blacks, and made several attempts at it [2], and in the Douglas-Lincoln debates said: I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold oﬃce, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. [3] (His opponent, Stephen Douglas, was even more opposed to the idea.) [1] https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3h490t.html https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3h490t.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery#Colonization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_and_slavery#Co... [3] Basler, The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Vol. II, pp. 235-236
- epistasis 1y ago
  I agree. But perhaps where we differ is that I don't think America is not a constant set of ideas, to establish an unchanging status quo. But rather the one constant in America is a vision for a different and better future than the present or past. And this is what MAGA is fighting against. MAGA is a vision for regression towards less equality, more hierarchy, and less universal freedom.