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> Elon is trying to reinvent public transportation without a shred of understanding Given Elon's enviable track record of proving the doubters wrong, I'd be he

> Elon is trying to reinvent public transportation without a shred of understanding Given Elon's enviable track record of proving the doubters wrong, I'd be hesitant to make such a claim.

darkhorse222 1y ago
That's an appeal to authority. Either make an argument for why his reasoning is good or don't. But don't appeal to someone's reputation. That being said, I do think what the parent commenter is missing is that those other modes require significant investment. With cars you get profit and can scale one by one. So less up front investment. Should do nicely in all sorts of cities.
- WalterBright 1y ago
  An appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, unless the authority is an expert in a relevant field. Elon is an expert at overturning conventional wisdom of what can be done in high risk enterprises. And transportation is one of his enterprises.
  - buran77 1y ago
    > an expert at overturning conventional wisdom Did you just invent a field so you can win an argument? Does it mean you revolutionized the field of inventing fields to win an argument? What about his less successful ventures like the Boring Company or Solar City? The world is full of one or two hit wonders thinking they have some insight on everything.
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      > one or two hit wonders Very few are two hit. Three is incredibly rare (Steve Jobs). Let's look at his hits: 1. Paypal 2. Tesla 3. SpaceX 4. Starlink 5. xAI 6. Neuralink (looking promising) 7. X (looking promising) 8. Boring (successful, but not a breakout success) 9. Solar City (less successful, now part of Tesla) BTW, Jobs had his failure too - Next By any objective measure, Musk's business success is incredible. I'm not just making an argument. I invested in his companies, and am enjoying the returns.
      - chung8123 1y ago
        Does that mean you are invested in Tesla or do you have private stakes in his other companies? Because all the other companies are separate and I feel like some people are investing in Tesla thinking they get part of SpaceX or something
      - Gareth321 1y ago
        When you list it like that, it's incredibly impressive. He's clearly autistic, and says and does very socially awkward things, but this is the kind of person which moves society ahead by decades. SpaceX alone has reduced space transport by 10 *times.* Starlink provides internet to everyone, anywhere in the world. [This](https://youtu.be/sX1Y2JMK6g8?si=rV5_BKsbPc2GPg3n&t=195 https://youtu.be/sX1Y2JMK6g8?si=rV5_BKsbPc2GPg3n&t=195) is like something out of a really cool sci-fi, but it's real life. It's going to be in the history books forever.
        WalterBright 1y ago
        It's so impressive, I would never have believed it possible. What's so sad is how others dismiss it all with "you didn't build that" and other nonsense.
  - darkhorse222 1y ago
    So your argument is basically that he is just very smart and good at being a disruptor therefore any questioning of his ventures is doubtful because he is successful at previous disruptions? You really think that's a valid argument? Or is this just being an Elon fan wrapped in additional language.
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      > You really think that's a valid argument? What you made up is not what I argued.
      - oenton 1y ago
        No, that is indeed what you argued. I suppose I’ll repeat the same question you’ve been asked several times now, do you have an actual argument against the valid skepticism of Elon’s robotaxi business?
        WalterBright 1y ago
        > valid skepticism There's a large gap between that and "without a shred of understanding". The fact that you disagree with my argument does not make it not an "actual" argument.
  - queenkjuul 1y ago
    FSD next year right buddy? How's your truck holding up?
leptons 1y ago
Please list some of the things he's "proved the doubters wrong" about.
- kubb 1y ago
  He demonstrated that electric cars are viable. Or that rockets can be reused. But he also started the tunnel company that went nowhere, claimed we'd have fully autonomous self-driving by now, and for some reason lied about being good at video games. I wish we'd see some nuance in this figure, and realize he's more self-serving than benevolent.
  - rsynnott 1y ago
    Possibly you omitted an (in America) from your original post? The first practical lithium ion battery car was either the Nissan Leaf or a weird Renault, depending on how you define practical (the Renault Zoe was built on the same platform as the weird Renault whose name I can’t remember , but came out about a year later). Both came out before the model S (though I think not in the US). Really, the electric car revolution, such as it is, was largely driven by battery tech; lithium ion batteries crossed a threshold from not good enough (there were electric cars based on such batteries, notably some weird VW Golfs, but they did not sell well) to good enough. The rocket thing was more business case than tech; both the US and Soviet Union studied reusable rockets from at least the 70s, but the economics wasn’t compelling.
    - llbbdd 1y ago
      I add "in America" to every post on here except the ones about EU tech regulations.
    - kubb 1y ago
      I mean yeah I agree with you. What he did doesn't justify the idealized view of him that people have. It's just that he's in the news 24/7 so the perception of his importance and greatness gets imprinted on you regardless of whether you want it or not.
    - 1y ago
Disposal8433 1y ago
The lies about FSD, the webcams instead of Lidars, the fake robot controlled by a human being, the obsession with shitcoins, firing useful people, the lies about his subway thingy, or being a literal Nazi in front of the cameras? I'm wondering what track record you could talk about, because I believe this guy should be in jail forever but you will surely prove me wrong.
- alt227 1y ago
  Im not a big Musk supporter, but none of those things you mentioned are illegal. So why should he be in jail? Just because you dont like him?
  - queenkjuul 1y ago
    Lying about FSD has resulted in loss of innocent lives
fwip 1y ago
Sure, Tesla cars will be able to drive themselves next year for the last ten years.
- xnx 1y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autonomous_Tesla_vehicles_by_Elon_Musk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autono...

> Elon is trying to reinvent public transportation without a shred of understanding Given Elon's enviable track record of proving the doubters wrong, I'd be hesitant to make such a claim.

darkhorse222 1y ago

That's an appeal to authority. Either make an argument for why his reasoning is good or don't. But don't appeal to someone's reputation. That being said, I do think what the parent commenter is missing is that those other modes require significant investment. With cars you get profit and can scale one by one. So less up front investment. Should do nicely in all sorts of cities.

WalterBright 1y ago
An appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, unless the authority is an expert in a relevant field. Elon is an expert at overturning conventional wisdom of what can be done in high risk enterprises. And transportation is one of his enterprises.
- buran77 1y ago
  > an expert at overturning conventional wisdom Did you just invent a field so you can win an argument? Does it mean you revolutionized the field of inventing fields to win an argument? What about his less successful ventures like the Boring Company or Solar City? The world is full of one or two hit wonders thinking they have some insight on everything.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    > one or two hit wonders Very few are two hit. Three is incredibly rare (Steve Jobs). Let's look at his hits: 1. Paypal 2. Tesla 3. SpaceX 4. Starlink 5. xAI 6. Neuralink (looking promising) 7. X (looking promising) 8. Boring (successful, but not a breakout success) 9. Solar City (less successful, now part of Tesla) BTW, Jobs had his failure too - Next By any objective measure, Musk's business success is incredible. I'm not just making an argument. I invested in his companies, and am enjoying the returns.
    - chung8123 1y ago
      Does that mean you are invested in Tesla or do you have private stakes in his other companies? Because all the other companies are separate and I feel like some people are investing in Tesla thinking they get part of SpaceX or something
    - Gareth321 1y ago
      When you list it like that, it's incredibly impressive. He's clearly autistic, and says and does very socially awkward things, but this is the kind of person which moves society ahead by decades. SpaceX alone has reduced space transport by 10 *times.* Starlink provides internet to everyone, anywhere in the world. [This](https://youtu.be/sX1Y2JMK6g8?si=rV5_BKsbPc2GPg3n&t=195 https://youtu.be/sX1Y2JMK6g8?si=rV5_BKsbPc2GPg3n&t=195) is like something out of a really cool sci-fi, but it's real life. It's going to be in the history books forever.
      - WalterBright 1y ago
        It's so impressive, I would never have believed it possible. What's so sad is how others dismiss it all with "you didn't build that" and other nonsense.
- darkhorse222 1y ago
  So your argument is basically that he is just very smart and good at being a disruptor therefore any questioning of his ventures is doubtful because he is successful at previous disruptions? You really think that's a valid argument? Or is this just being an Elon fan wrapped in additional language.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    > You really think that's a valid argument? What you made up is not what I argued.
    - oenton 1y ago
      No, that is indeed what you argued. I suppose I’ll repeat the same question you’ve been asked several times now, do you have an actual argument against the valid skepticism of Elon’s robotaxi business?
      - WalterBright 1y ago
        > valid skepticism There's a large gap between that and "without a shred of understanding". The fact that you disagree with my argument does not make it not an "actual" argument.
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  FSD next year right buddy? How's your truck holding up?

leptons 1y ago

Please list some of the things he's "proved the doubters wrong" about.

kubb 1y ago
He demonstrated that electric cars are viable. Or that rockets can be reused. But he also started the tunnel company that went nowhere, claimed we'd have fully autonomous self-driving by now, and for some reason lied about being good at video games. I wish we'd see some nuance in this figure, and realize he's more self-serving than benevolent.
- rsynnott 1y ago
  Possibly you omitted an (in America) from your original post? The first practical lithium ion battery car was either the Nissan Leaf or a weird Renault, depending on how you define practical (the Renault Zoe was built on the same platform as the weird Renault whose name I can’t remember , but came out about a year later). Both came out before the model S (though I think not in the US). Really, the electric car revolution, such as it is, was largely driven by battery tech; lithium ion batteries crossed a threshold from not good enough (there were electric cars based on such batteries, notably some weird VW Golfs, but they did not sell well) to good enough. The rocket thing was more business case than tech; both the US and Soviet Union studied reusable rockets from at least the 70s, but the economics wasn’t compelling.
  - llbbdd 1y ago
    I add "in America" to every post on here except the ones about EU tech regulations.
  - kubb 1y ago
    I mean yeah I agree with you. What he did doesn't justify the idealized view of him that people have. It's just that he's in the news 24/7 so the perception of his importance and greatness gets imprinted on you regardless of whether you want it or not.
  - 1y ago

Disposal8433 1y ago

The lies about FSD, the webcams instead of Lidars, the fake robot controlled by a human being, the obsession with shitcoins, firing useful people, the lies about his subway thingy, or being a literal Nazi in front of the cameras? I'm wondering what track record you could talk about, because I believe this guy should be in jail forever but you will surely prove me wrong.

alt227 1y ago
Im not a big Musk supporter, but none of those things you mentioned are illegal. So why should he be in jail? Just because you dont like him?
- queenkjuul 1y ago
  Lying about FSD has resulted in loss of innocent lives

fwip 1y ago

Sure, Tesla cars will be able to drive themselves next year for the last ten years.

xnx 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autonomous_Tesla_vehicles_by_Elon_Musk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autono...