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Stop looking backwards. The desktop is being left behind by mobile. Recognize that Android/GNU/Linux has won mobile. Despite an early lead, Microsoft has been

Stop looking backwards. The desktop is being left behind by mobile. Recognize that Android/GNU/Linux has won mobile. Despite an early lead, Microsoft has been crushed worldwide in mobile by a Free Software platform. Android provides a platform where both Free libraries and closed source apps proliferate - and are very inexpensive. All the failures of desktop GNU/Linux have been solved, or are not relevant, in mobile GNU/Linux. Regarding the tablet segment of mobile, one could argue that GNU/Linux will seize the low end and gradually gain market share at the expense of iPad, leaving no room for Microsoft. The only reason I care about desktop OS at all is to develop for mobile or back-end server.

SlipperySlope 14y ago
Adding insult to injury, its likely that once-dominant Microsoft will not only be crushed by Android/GNU/Linux in mobile, but also by other upcoming mobile ecosystems built on GNU/Linux - Amazon's Android fork and the Tizen mobile OS. As of June, Google said that Android/GNU/Linux was on 400 million devices and that each day 1 million new devices were activated by users worldwide. Clearly, no one is worrying about why Linux failed on mobile!
- cooldeal 14y ago
  Linux dominates on the routers too, but people still spend most of their time using laptops and desktops. Android/GNU/Linux? What? Locked bootloaders, closed source drivers? You're angering RMS.
  - SlipperySlope 14y ago
    Agreed! See: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
Hey SlipperySlope, where can I check out the latest source for Android? What is the procedure for getting commit privileges? Answer key: 1) You can't. 2) Become a Google employee.
- SlipperySlope 14y ago
  Like all Free Software, the source code for stable Android/GNU/Linux can be downloaded. That's how Amazon built their fork. See: http://source.android.com/ http://source.android.com/ I concede that Google locks up the code for upcoming releases. No need really to tell you that most mature Free Software projects encourage bug reports and patch submissions, but limit source code commit privileges in order to maintain stability. Evidently its more useful to develop/maintain a Free Java library for app developers. Or submit/maintain a kernel patch for a mobile device driver. Understand that Google does not control GNU/Linux. And even its control of Android is not enough to prevent forks. UI/API tinkering and fragmentation hindered desktop GNU/Linux adoption. Why go there unless you want to fork?
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    > And even its control of Android is not enough to prevent forks. If it did, Android wouldn't be free. > UI/API tinkering and fragmentation hindered desktop GNU/Linux adoption OTOH, it allowed Linux to expand beyond the desktop, into mobile and embedded. Linux devices probably outnumber PCs by a large multiple.
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > What is the procedure for getting commit privileges? Make your own fork. You don't have commit privileges on the Linux kernel, Apache Tomcat or the GCC compilers and they are all free software. Oh... As for the source, http://bit.ly/UhVbyk http://bit.ly/UhVbyk
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    A few crucial differences,unlike the other projects you mentioned, Android development happens behind closed doors, no outside patches are ever accepted, and an OEM is specially picked for exclusive early access to a new release and the others and CM are left scrambling to update their devices if they fork too much. Not to mention, Google apps and the marketplace is neither free or Free. Even Windows betas are distributed to all OEMs equally with no special treatment.
nhebb 14y ago
> The desktop is being left behind by mobile. I don't believe that. I think mobile augments people's computing, but I haven't seen any data to indicate that people are actually replacing desktop with mobile.
recoiledsnake 14y ago
>Android provides a platform where both Free libraries and closed source apps proliferate - and are very inexpensive. All the failures of desktop GNU/Linux have been solved, or are not relevant, in mobile GNU/Linux. Well, mobile is not for productivity, or even for typing a long email. How many people you know that haven't got a laptop or desktop, except grandmas? What kind of programs do typical people use on millions of Android phones? >Regarding the tablet segment of mobile, one could argue that GNU/Linux will seize the low end and gradually gain market share at the expense of iPad, leaving no room for Microsoft. What? Android tablets are not selling very well and are getting crushed by the iPad. Meanwhile, Surface seems to be the only device ready to take on the iPad by the horns, the rest are cheap imitations of the iPad but really cheap since Apple has a tight supply chain. Not to mention that a 7" iPad will take away some of the low end market you're talking about. So that's a rather silly argument to make. >The only reason I care about desktop OS at all is to develop for mobile or back-end server. What about laptops? Are they "mobile"? You're pretty much ignoring them.
- esolyt 14y ago
  "Well, mobile is not for productivity, or even for typing a long email." You can type a long email, as long as you are using a physical keyboard.
jdub 14y ago
Android is specifically not "GNU/Linux". It's a Linux kernel with an almost entirely custom user land, from the C library up. Sure, some of it is Open Source, some of it is even non-Google-created Open Source, but it's knowingly and specifically not "GNU" and/or GPL.
- SlipperySlope 14y ago
  Thanks for correcting me! http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html

SlipperySlope 14y ago

Adding insult to injury, its likely that once-dominant Microsoft will not only be crushed by Android/GNU/Linux in mobile, but also by other upcoming mobile ecosystems built on GNU/Linux - Amazon's Android fork and the Tizen mobile OS. As of June, Google said that Android/GNU/Linux was on 400 million devices and that each day 1 million new devices were activated by users worldwide. Clearly, no one is worrying about why Linux failed on mobile!

cooldeal 14y ago
Linux dominates on the routers too, but people still spend most of their time using laptops and desktops. Android/GNU/Linux? What? Locked bootloaders, closed source drivers? You're angering RMS.
- SlipperySlope 14y ago
  Agreed! See: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

Hey SlipperySlope, where can I check out the latest source for Android? What is the procedure for getting commit privileges? Answer key: 1) You can't. 2) Become a Google employee.

SlipperySlope 14y ago
Like all Free Software, the source code for stable Android/GNU/Linux can be downloaded. That's how Amazon built their fork. See: http://source.android.com/ http://source.android.com/ I concede that Google locks up the code for upcoming releases. No need really to tell you that most mature Free Software projects encourage bug reports and patch submissions, but limit source code commit privileges in order to maintain stability. Evidently its more useful to develop/maintain a Free Java library for app developers. Or submit/maintain a kernel patch for a mobile device driver. Understand that Google does not control GNU/Linux. And even its control of Android is not enough to prevent forks. UI/API tinkering and fragmentation hindered desktop GNU/Linux adoption. Why go there unless you want to fork?
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > And even its control of Android is not enough to prevent forks. If it did, Android wouldn't be free. > UI/API tinkering and fragmentation hindered desktop GNU/Linux adoption OTOH, it allowed Linux to expand beyond the desktop, into mobile and embedded. Linux devices probably outnumber PCs by a large multiple.
rbanffy 14y ago
> What is the procedure for getting commit privileges? Make your own fork. You don't have commit privileges on the Linux kernel, Apache Tomcat or the GCC compilers and they are all free software. Oh... As for the source, http://bit.ly/UhVbyk http://bit.ly/UhVbyk
- cooldeal 14y ago
  A few crucial differences,unlike the other projects you mentioned, Android development happens behind closed doors, no outside patches are ever accepted, and an OEM is specially picked for exclusive early access to a new release and the others and CM are left scrambling to update their devices if they fork too much. Not to mention, Google apps and the marketplace is neither free or Free. Even Windows betas are distributed to all OEMs equally with no special treatment.

nhebb 14y ago

> The desktop is being left behind by mobile. I don't believe that. I think mobile augments people's computing, but I haven't seen any data to indicate that people are actually replacing desktop with mobile.

recoiledsnake 14y ago

>Android provides a platform where both Free libraries and closed source apps proliferate - and are very inexpensive. All the failures of desktop GNU/Linux have been solved, or are not relevant, in mobile GNU/Linux. Well, mobile is not for productivity, or even for typing a long email. How many people you know that haven't got a laptop or desktop, except grandmas? What kind of programs do typical people use on millions of Android phones? >Regarding the tablet segment of mobile, one could argue that GNU/Linux will seize the low end and gradually gain market share at the expense of iPad, leaving no room for Microsoft. What? Android tablets are not selling very well and are getting crushed by the iPad. Meanwhile, Surface seems to be the only device ready to take on the iPad by the horns, the rest are cheap imitations of the iPad but really cheap since Apple has a tight supply chain. Not to mention that a 7" iPad will take away some of the low end market you're talking about. So that's a rather silly argument to make. >The only reason I care about desktop OS at all is to develop for mobile or back-end server. What about laptops? Are they "mobile"? You're pretty much ignoring them.

esolyt 14y ago
"Well, mobile is not for productivity, or even for typing a long email." You can type a long email, as long as you are using a physical keyboard.

jdub 14y ago

Android is specifically not "GNU/Linux". It's a Linux kernel with an almost entirely custom user land, from the C library up. Sure, some of it is Open Source, some of it is even non-Google-created Open Source, but it's knowingly and specifically not "GNU" and/or GPL.

SlipperySlope 14y ago
Thanks for correcting me! http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html