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Yeah...look at all the top researchers in AI, and count how many of them came here through H-1B. Gotta be something like 70%-80%. Nothing against "homegrown" t

Yeah...look at all the top researchers in AI, and count how many of them came here through H-1B. Gotta be something like 70%-80%. Nothing against "homegrown" talent, but let's be real - US is getting cream of the crop talent from other countries. (And that's just AI, not do the same for other fields. Many of these people started as regular engineers and devs., and didn't come to the through the EB-1B/Einstein visa. Just a regular H-1B. And many on student visas.)

sownkun 1y ago
H-1B for top talent in fields like AI makes sense. But in most cases it's not being used for that. It's just being used to fill generic software jobs that can be filled by US citizens/residents.
- lokar 1y ago
  Even more basic IT jobs, no programming at all
- dangus 1y ago
  Those top tier researchers are the kind of people the program is legitimately meant for, but for every one of those there are probably 10 or 100 H-1B contractors being paid below-market wages resulting in underemployment of US citizens, especially early career graduates. The program is also used to employ people that won’t quit when they are mistreated because their family’s existence in the country depends on continued employment.
- spacemadness 1y ago
  I’ve worked with a lot of backend and mobile devs that are on H1-B. They were solid for the most part but they aren’t exactly niche skills.
bugbuddy 1y ago
This is complete BS. There are plenty of good candidates all over the world including the US. To make it fair, just put a 1000 limit per country per year.
- dangus 1y ago
  My understanding is that the specifically set limits per country are actually somewhat unfair in the status quo. It means that applicants from smaller countries are way more likely to get in just based on where they were born rather than based on merit or employers’ talent needs.
  - bugbuddy 1y ago
    That makes no sense. Are you saying just because India has more people than Thailand, more Indian should be able get this Visa? That’s completely unfair Thai men, women, and the ones in between. Should India be able to send more soccer teams to the World Cup also?
    - dangus 1y ago
      I think setting limits per country at all is probably dumb. Should just be a global limit or maybe no limit at all and, perhaps making the program far more stringent about qualifications if needed. Let’s say hypothetically India has 10,000 A+ candidates, and Thailand has 1,000 A+ candidates. India’s limit is 5,000 candidates and Thailand’s limit is 500 candidates based on population difference or other factors like diplomatic relations. Half of India’s most qualified aren’t getting in while all of Thailand’s most qualified candidates are getting in plus 500 less qualified candidates. So all else being equal if you’re very qualified you’ll have a better chance to win the lottery just by being born in a different country.
      - bugbuddy 1y ago
        You know what the most important people should be when considering what is fair? Americans. Why should American policy care if fewer qualified Indians don’t get in? If less qualified Thais are available then fewer than the limit will be issued. The limit is not there to serve Indians. The limit should be there to prevent the industry from further concentration and becoming a subsidiary of a foreign government like India. There is a national security element to this also.
andsoitis 1y ago
> look at all the top researchers in AI, and count how many of them came here through H-1B. Gotta be something like 70%-80% What’s your source?
rdtsc 1y ago
Would you say the bulk of the H-1Bs are cream of the crop?
itg 1y ago
The EB1 visa exists for these "top researchers", the H1B is being used to suppress wages by increasing labor supply for basic software engineering roles a fresh college grad can easily complete.
- TrackerFF 1y ago
  Indeed, but so many in the field of AI have followed this route: Student -> regular dev/engineer -> promoted to lead/researcher/manager (or jump to another company for those positions). If they didn't come to the US on a student VISA, or H1-B to begin with, they wouldn't have been able to follow the path they did.
- lokar 1y ago
  I have worked with many very smart engineers at big tech firms. We were constantly searching, never hitting hiring goals. The H1B people were not displacing anyone and were paid top of market.
labcomputer 1y ago
I don't disagree with you, but: If the supposed benefit of H-1B is getting top researchers from other fields, why do we allow body shops to fill the annual quota with low skill workers? Like, shouldn't we be in favor of rules will which will shift the balance of H-1B recipients towards the highest skilled (and probably highest paid) workers, instead of a lottery that rewards spamming the system with the greatest number of people who technically have a bachelor's degree? It seems like a rules change could actually increase the number of very highly qualified people coming to America.
akaksk 1y ago
By and large the majority of our H1Bs are from India. Why isn’t China fighting tooth and nail for these hires if they’re so valuable? Additionally, why isn’t India fighting tooth and nail to keep them home and help their own country? Last I checked, Modi is working to facilitate these hires.
- TrackerFF 1y ago
  Higher comp in the US, because that's where the capital is. More freedom, too. Especially if you're religious (compared to China). Indians are already very integrated in tech, so networking benefits. If Indians prefer to hire Indians, makes sense that more Indians want to give it a shot.
  - akaksk 1y ago
    I’m saying there’s no effort from China to get these workers and there’s an effort from India to facilitate these workers out of India and to America. If these were high value workers neither of these things would be true.
master_crab 1y ago
If they truly have extraordinary talent in AI, there is the O1 visa. Bigger hurdle, but considering how Zuck is paying 100mil for some of these people, a low bar relatively.
like_any_other 1y ago
> Yeah...look at all the top researchers in AI, and count how many of them came here through H-1B. Gotta be something like 70%-80%. It's funny how easily the argument flips between that and "I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.", so long as it leads to the desired conclusion.

sownkun 1y ago

H-1B for top talent in fields like AI makes sense. But in most cases it's not being used for that. It's just being used to fill generic software jobs that can be filled by US citizens/residents.

lokar 1y ago
Even more basic IT jobs, no programming at all
dangus 1y ago
Those top tier researchers are the kind of people the program is legitimately meant for, but for every one of those there are probably 10 or 100 H-1B contractors being paid below-market wages resulting in underemployment of US citizens, especially early career graduates. The program is also used to employ people that won’t quit when they are mistreated because their family’s existence in the country depends on continued employment.
spacemadness 1y ago
I’ve worked with a lot of backend and mobile devs that are on H1-B. They were solid for the most part but they aren’t exactly niche skills.

bugbuddy 1y ago

This is complete BS. There are plenty of good candidates all over the world including the US. To make it fair, just put a 1000 limit per country per year.

dangus 1y ago
My understanding is that the specifically set limits per country are actually somewhat unfair in the status quo. It means that applicants from smaller countries are way more likely to get in just based on where they were born rather than based on merit or employers’ talent needs.
- bugbuddy 1y ago
  That makes no sense. Are you saying just because India has more people than Thailand, more Indian should be able get this Visa? That’s completely unfair Thai men, women, and the ones in between. Should India be able to send more soccer teams to the World Cup also?
  - dangus 1y ago
    I think setting limits per country at all is probably dumb. Should just be a global limit or maybe no limit at all and, perhaps making the program far more stringent about qualifications if needed. Let’s say hypothetically India has 10,000 A+ candidates, and Thailand has 1,000 A+ candidates. India’s limit is 5,000 candidates and Thailand’s limit is 500 candidates based on population difference or other factors like diplomatic relations. Half of India’s most qualified aren’t getting in while all of Thailand’s most qualified candidates are getting in plus 500 less qualified candidates. So all else being equal if you’re very qualified you’ll have a better chance to win the lottery just by being born in a different country.
    - bugbuddy 1y ago
      You know what the most important people should be when considering what is fair? Americans. Why should American policy care if fewer qualified Indians don’t get in? If less qualified Thais are available then fewer than the limit will be issued. The limit is not there to serve Indians. The limit should be there to prevent the industry from further concentration and becoming a subsidiary of a foreign government like India. There is a national security element to this also.

andsoitis 1y ago

> look at all the top researchers in AI, and count how many of them came here through H-1B. Gotta be something like 70%-80% What’s your source?

rdtsc 1y ago

Would you say the bulk of the H-1Bs are cream of the crop?

itg 1y ago

The EB1 visa exists for these "top researchers", the H1B is being used to suppress wages by increasing labor supply for basic software engineering roles a fresh college grad can easily complete.

TrackerFF 1y ago
Indeed, but so many in the field of AI have followed this route: Student -> regular dev/engineer -> promoted to lead/researcher/manager (or jump to another company for those positions). If they didn't come to the US on a student VISA, or H1-B to begin with, they wouldn't have been able to follow the path they did.
lokar 1y ago
I have worked with many very smart engineers at big tech firms. We were constantly searching, never hitting hiring goals. The H1B people were not displacing anyone and were paid top of market.

labcomputer 1y ago

I don't disagree with you, but: If the supposed benefit of H-1B is getting top researchers from other fields, why do we allow body shops to fill the annual quota with low skill workers? Like, shouldn't we be in favor of rules will which will shift the balance of H-1B recipients towards the highest skilled (and probably highest paid) workers, instead of a lottery that rewards spamming the system with the greatest number of people who technically have a bachelor's degree? It seems like a rules change could actually increase the number of very highly qualified people coming to America.

akaksk 1y ago

By and large the majority of our H1Bs are from India. Why isn’t China fighting tooth and nail for these hires if they’re so valuable? Additionally, why isn’t India fighting tooth and nail to keep them home and help their own country? Last I checked, Modi is working to facilitate these hires.

TrackerFF 1y ago
Higher comp in the US, because that's where the capital is. More freedom, too. Especially if you're religious (compared to China). Indians are already very integrated in tech, so networking benefits. If Indians prefer to hire Indians, makes sense that more Indians want to give it a shot.
- akaksk 1y ago
  I’m saying there’s no effort from China to get these workers and there’s an effort from India to facilitate these workers out of India and to America. If these were high value workers neither of these things would be true.

master_crab 1y ago

If they truly have extraordinary talent in AI, there is the O1 visa. Bigger hurdle, but considering how Zuck is paying 100mil for some of these people, a low bar relatively.

like_any_other 1y ago

> Yeah...look at all the top researchers in AI, and count how many of them came here through H-1B. Gotta be something like 70%-80%. It's funny how easily the argument flips between that and "I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.", so long as it leads to the desired conclusion.