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I think this is a great insight. Also, from a personal perspective, one of the problems I regularly experience as a consumer of goods is that it is very difficu

I think this is a great insight. Also, from a personal perspective, one of the problems I regularly experience as a consumer of goods is that it is very difficult for me to judge quality, meaning I can explicitly not intuit value. For example, two years ago I bought 3 identical pairs of Levi’s jeans at considerable cost. Granted, they’re all I wear, but given that I follow the washing instructions and don’t put undue stress on them I’d expect them to last 5 years. Two are busted already. I am looking for replacements and apparently buying from what I considered to be a reputable brand at a high price (which I foolishly believed to be an indicator of quality which it no longer is) is not a viable strategy anymore. I am faced with a choice, do I join the problem and go for fast fashion crap or do I risk being burned again? Who do I believe when I’m researching quality? Google and Reddit have long since been astroturfed and small scale forums are dead.

walterbell 1y ago
The search term BIFL (Buy It For Life) helps with some products. With ongoing supply chain, currency and trade variables, it's worth buying spares of proven products, which may later disappear from the market. As for reputable brands, we may soon need version numbers for both products and companies, based on factors like supply chains, regulation, trade policy, corporate management, leadership or ownership (e.g. PE) changes. 2019 jeans from "Acme Corp v10" may be quite different from 2026 jeans from "Acme Corp v12".
lotsofpulp 1y ago
Buy the cheapest version that works for your needs. Or lower your expectations. For example, I buy at Costco first, and if that doesn’t work, I seek higher quality. But I also don’t expect clothes to last many, many years.
Der_Einzige 1y ago
lol jeans. Just got into selvedge denim, go buy from a company like brave star denim, and don’t buy anything less than 15 oz. I can find a literal 21 oz unrippable insane heavy weight selvedge denim pants for less than 200, and it’ll be made in America of Japanese materials. Most Americans are simply stupid when they buy clothes. They don’t do research and they make extremely suboptimal purchases by trusting big brands. Just checked: https://bravestarselvage.com/collections/heavyweight-selvage-denim/products/pre-order-true-straight-21-5oz-gauntlet-heavyweight-selvage-denim https://bravestarselvage.com/collections/heavyweight-selvage... 168 USD for jeans so strong and thick they feel like armor. You will never wear out of these jeans or rip them.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  Jeans at old navy or costco or next are $20 to $30. And I can wash them on “normal” cycle every time I wear them, and dry them on normal and never have to worry about taking care of them. They still last me at least a couple years. And I don’t have to trust that the manufacturer made them well enough to last 7+ years for me to break even.
  - hilux 1y ago
    Check out shopgoodwill.com. I get everything there. Most clothes are incredible value, and even with a few duds in the mix, it's way better (for my wallet, and the environment) than buying new at retail.
  - Der_Einzige 1y ago
    Wearing unfashionable or ugly clothes will get you treated poorly by others, which leads to negative life outcomes. No one finds old navy or costco 20-30$ jeans fashionable. You need to trust that the manufacturer didn't cheap out in ways that could negatively impact your health. From https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/fashion-beauty/article/3190927/toxic-chemicals-our-clothes-lead-chromium-pfas-phthalates https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/fashion-beauty/article/319092... "Experts said Shein is not a unique case. Clothes from many large clothing brands like Lululemon, Old Navy, and REI have been found to contain toxic chemicals." Selvedge Denim from made in america/japan brands (i.e. brave star, gustin, naked and famous, iron heart, etc) is made using 1940s machines/techniques using (usually) 100% cotton denim. No toxic chemicals. My jeans are better than yours.
- gtowey 1y ago
  It's not just being stupid, it's that the information space is overflowing with marketing and BS. It's a mammoth task to parse through it all and not be suckered in by a slick advertisement that says the product you're looking at has everything you want. Amazon is absolutely the worst for false advertising, garbage masquerading as top of the line. And the usual alternative, using Google to search for companies directly, has turned into a largely futile experience as their search results are absolutely terrible, showing almost only the "top" retailers which are the same purveyors of cheap crap. I have spent a considerable amount of time researching better, more durable pants and this is the first time I've heard about this company. So thank you for that!
rixed 1y ago
There is only one reliable way to tell that a product can stand the test of time: how old is it already? You can't buy anything second hand, but jeans you can.
hedora 1y ago
The only solution I know of is just not buying stuff from brands Walmart (and, increasingly, Home Depot, amazon, etc) carries. A new pair of Levi’s are $20 at walmart and $80 everywhere else (before recent inflation). In theory, the $80 pair matches their previous quality, but in practice, they were forced to chase profitability with high-volume $20 jeans, so it’s all outsourced to the same overseas factories. The $80 pair are also crap being produced for sustenance wages, but with slightly thicker denim. This is absolutely intentional, and is the cornerstone of modern retail in the US. Monopoly retailers drove prices below production wages or environmental impact, and their profit is driven by by the frequency with which stuff breaks and is replaced. It all relies on information asymmetry. Look at the market for grifters discussion on HN yesterday. It talks about the economics of targeted advertising, but similar games are played by name brands. For instance most appliance manufacturers own many brands, and rotate which brand is garbage in a given year. That constantly tricks people into buying garbage from a “reputable” brand. https://reclaimdemocracy.org/walmart-product-quality-durability-longevity/ https://reclaimdemocracy.org/walmart-product-quality-durabil...

walterbell 1y ago

The search term BIFL (Buy It For Life) helps with some products. With ongoing supply chain, currency and trade variables, it's worth buying spares of proven products, which may later disappear from the market. As for reputable brands, we may soon need version numbers for both products and companies, based on factors like supply chains, regulation, trade policy, corporate management, leadership or ownership (e.g. PE) changes. 2019 jeans from "Acme Corp v10" may be quite different from 2026 jeans from "Acme Corp v12".

lotsofpulp 1y ago

Buy the cheapest version that works for your needs. Or lower your expectations. For example, I buy at Costco first, and if that doesn’t work, I seek higher quality. But I also don’t expect clothes to last many, many years.

Der_Einzige 1y ago

lol jeans. Just got into selvedge denim, go buy from a company like brave star denim, and don’t buy anything less than 15 oz. I can find a literal 21 oz unrippable insane heavy weight selvedge denim pants for less than 200, and it’ll be made in America of Japanese materials. Most Americans are simply stupid when they buy clothes. They don’t do research and they make extremely suboptimal purchases by trusting big brands. Just checked: https://bravestarselvage.com/collections/heavyweight-selvage-denim/products/pre-order-true-straight-21-5oz-gauntlet-heavyweight-selvage-denim https://bravestarselvage.com/collections/heavyweight-selvage... 168 USD for jeans so strong and thick they feel like armor. You will never wear out of these jeans or rip them.

lotsofpulp 1y ago
Jeans at old navy or costco or next are $20 to $30. And I can wash them on “normal” cycle every time I wear them, and dry them on normal and never have to worry about taking care of them. They still last me at least a couple years. And I don’t have to trust that the manufacturer made them well enough to last 7+ years for me to break even.
- hilux 1y ago
  Check out shopgoodwill.com. I get everything there. Most clothes are incredible value, and even with a few duds in the mix, it's way better (for my wallet, and the environment) than buying new at retail.
- Der_Einzige 1y ago
  Wearing unfashionable or ugly clothes will get you treated poorly by others, which leads to negative life outcomes. No one finds old navy or costco 20-30$ jeans fashionable. You need to trust that the manufacturer didn't cheap out in ways that could negatively impact your health. From https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/fashion-beauty/article/3190927/toxic-chemicals-our-clothes-lead-chromium-pfas-phthalates https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/fashion-beauty/article/319092... "Experts said Shein is not a unique case. Clothes from many large clothing brands like Lululemon, Old Navy, and REI have been found to contain toxic chemicals." Selvedge Denim from made in america/japan brands (i.e. brave star, gustin, naked and famous, iron heart, etc) is made using 1940s machines/techniques using (usually) 100% cotton denim. No toxic chemicals. My jeans are better than yours.
gtowey 1y ago
It's not just being stupid, it's that the information space is overflowing with marketing and BS. It's a mammoth task to parse through it all and not be suckered in by a slick advertisement that says the product you're looking at has everything you want. Amazon is absolutely the worst for false advertising, garbage masquerading as top of the line. And the usual alternative, using Google to search for companies directly, has turned into a largely futile experience as their search results are absolutely terrible, showing almost only the "top" retailers which are the same purveyors of cheap crap. I have spent a considerable amount of time researching better, more durable pants and this is the first time I've heard about this company. So thank you for that!

rixed 1y ago

There is only one reliable way to tell that a product can stand the test of time: how old is it already? You can't buy anything second hand, but jeans you can.

hedora 1y ago

The only solution I know of is just not buying stuff from brands Walmart (and, increasingly, Home Depot, amazon, etc) carries. A new pair of Levi’s are $20 at walmart and $80 everywhere else (before recent inflation). In theory, the $80 pair matches their previous quality, but in practice, they were forced to chase profitability with high-volume $20 jeans, so it’s all outsourced to the same overseas factories. The $80 pair are also crap being produced for sustenance wages, but with slightly thicker denim. This is absolutely intentional, and is the cornerstone of modern retail in the US. Monopoly retailers drove prices below production wages or environmental impact, and their profit is driven by by the frequency with which stuff breaks and is replaced. It all relies on information asymmetry. Look at the market for grifters discussion on HN yesterday. It talks about the economics of targeted advertising, but similar games are played by name brands. For instance most appliance manufacturers own many brands, and rotate which brand is garbage in a given year. That constantly tricks people into buying garbage from a “reputable” brand. https://reclaimdemocracy.org/walmart-product-quality-durability-longevity/ https://reclaimdemocracy.org/walmart-product-quality-durabil...