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By “processes food hysteria stuff”, do you mean “the growing research consensus around ultra-processed foods”?

by thoroughburro 1y ago

vmg12 1y ago
A category that includes both twinkies and whey protein powder doesn't seem that useful.
- druskacik 1y ago
  The rule of thumb is that the ultra-processed food should not account for a too large part of your diet. The protein powder is usually taken as a supplement and in small quantities, as opposed to food like twinkies people can easily overeat on. But try to make protein powder 80% of your protein intake and see how you'll feel in a week.
  - square_usual 1y ago
    > But try to make protein powder 80% of your protein intake and see how you'll feel in a week. What? I've had >100g of protein from whey protein shakes every day for months now. I don't know what you're trying to imply.
    - FredPret 1y ago
      Whey protein is definitely among the better options, but I once did what you described, and then switched to eating a large amount of chicken breasts. I definitely feel a bit better, and have a much easier time building muscle. If you run the numbers, you can actually eat a shocking amout of protein (300g+ / day) from lean meat while maintaining a calorie deficit. And if you buy frozen chicken breasts from Costco, I think it’s actually cheaper than whey! That said - you do you, whey has its place in many lifestyles.
      - tempnew 1y ago
        I’ve heard you can cut intake by a third if you switch from chicken breast to fish. Not cheap but you can get frozen tilapia cheap and tuna is safe if limited to once or twice a week. Part of the problem with whey is processing and potential contamination, but also dyes and flavorings, which may be why you felt better without it.
        FredPret 1y ago
        Yeah, plus it adds up to a lot of cacao since I bought the chocolate tubs from Costco. And that’s assuming it contains (only) what the label says. Our caveman ancestors did not eat fillers.
      - stef25 1y ago
        > frozen chicken breasts How do you make that taste good though
        thaumasiotes 1y ago
        You cook them before eating.
        FredPret 1y ago
        They come pre-brined, so any form of cooking that ends at 165F makes them incredibly juicy and good, even directly from frozen. BBQ is best.
    - throwsbzhshe 1y ago
      I’ve also been consuming 120g daily (about 4 scoops) of whey protein powder for 2.5 months now and feel perfectly fine.
      - piyushpr134 1y ago
        protein can shoot up your sugar levels too. Do hba1c tests after a month to make sure they are not
    - druskacik 1y ago
      Okay, I genuinely thought that consuming as much protein powder as you describe would make person feel sick, you surprised me. To each his own. The fact remains, research suggests overdosing on protein supplements has potential health hazards. "According to international consensus, the daily reference intake of protein for the healthy adult population is 0.8 g/kg body weight. However, individuals who engage in physical activity may require more protein, ranging from 1.2 to 2 grams per kilogram of body weight. To fulfill these requirements, many athletes and active individuals opt for whey protein (WP) supplements to increase their protein intake. The appropriate amount of WP intake for individuals depends on their objectives, current level of physical activity, and body composition. Research suggests that a dosage of 20 to 25 g/day of WP provides the desired benefits, while amounts >40 g/day may lead to adverse effects on the body"[0] [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10761008/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10761008/
      - gruez 1y ago
        Is that from the protein supplements themselves, or from consuming excessive protein in the first place? In other words if you ate the same amount but as steaks/eggs, would you feel the same symptoms?
        hollerith 1y ago
        40 g of protein per day is only 6.1 oz of chicken tenderloins (raw weight) per day which is very unlikely to cause the effect described in the paper ("hyperfiltration and increased urinary calcium excretion which can, in turn, lead to chronic kidney disease development"). People who eat a lot of protein die sooner than people who eat less, but that is probably because plentiful protein prevents the body from entering a state called "autophagy". Intentionally inducing autophagy for 5 days every other month (by using Valter Longo's protocol) while eating plenty of protein the rest of the time is probably better for most people than a consistently low-protein diet as long as one is avoiding red meat (provided the people can afford the protein which will be the case for almost everyone in the developed world).
      - gamblor956 1y ago
    - Spooky23 1y ago
      As with all things it depends on you. In general lots of protein can impact blood sugar. Whey protein without sufficient exercise can cause liver issues, so you shouldn’t go crazy with it unless you’re regularly monitored by a doctor. (Standard blood panels would detect an issue iirc)
  - vmg12 1y ago
    > But try to make protein powder 80% of your protein intake and see how you'll feel in a week This is true for any food though. A different line of argument would be what if 95% of your protein came from whey and all other nutrients came from other sources. As long as you get the right balance of macronutrients and micronutrients i suspect you will be fine. Unfortunately studies on diet are very difficult to actually implement so we don't have the data to be certain. Obviously most ultra processed food is low in nutrition, high in sugar, and high palateability so it makes sense that ultraprocessed foods are associated with bad health outcomes but I think it's a step too far to say that all ultra processed food is bad (it's probably a good rule of thumb for most people however).
- albedoa 1y ago
  Do you think that the poster who used the phrase "processes food hysteria stuff" unprompted is intending to make a statement about the broadness or usefulness of the category.
  - vmg12 1y ago
    That's how I interpreted it. I don't think it's enough to say a food is unhealthy simply because it's ultra-processed.
    - albedoa 1y ago
      That is a pretty wild interpretation man. You absolutely do not need to be projecting meaning or motive onto these conspiracy theorists when they are telling you exactly what they believe.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
actsasbuffoon 1y ago
The bulk of the harm from ultra-processed foods was specifically from meats, with smaller contributions coming from sugary drinks and dairy desserts. It’s the pink slime, reconstituted McRib, and hot dogs that are causing the most significant health problems. Beyond burgers have no cholesterol, hormones, or antibiotics. They’ve got significantly lower saturated fats. Studies have shown that swapping out regular burgers for Beyond burgers lowers your LDL cholesterol and TMAO. I’m not going to pretend they’re as healthy as a burger made out of black beans and carrots. But if concerns about UPFs are your primary reason for avoiding them then you can relax; they’re not that bad.
- graublau 1y ago
  9/10 doctors recommend beyond meat can be part of a healthy diet.
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    A stick of lard can be part of a healthy diet. Just like its meat equivalent, moderation matters.
  - Saline9515 1y ago
    "More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarettes!" https://tobacco.stanford.edu/cigarettes/doctors-smoking/more-doctors-smoke-camels/ https://tobacco.stanford.edu/cigarettes/doctors-smoking/more...
- lanfeust6 1y ago
  The obesity crisis, and metabolic syndrome issues, has far more to do with sugary drinks and snacks made up of flour and oil devoid of fiber and protein. The risk attributed to processed meat is cancer, and CVD by extension of being meat and fatty, not BC its processed. People don't really consume that much "processed meat" on the daily in the form of salami or w/e.
rpdillon 1y ago
As a skeptic, I think that they have defined too broad of an umbrella in the research, and so they're sweeping up huge swaths of people's diet under one label and then claiming it's bad. Up thread, people are talking about using minced soy protein. I'm kind of surprised that itself is not ultra processed, given that bread flour is considered to be ultra processed.
- anon84873628 1y ago
  Soy protein isolate is considered ultra processed just like whey. The problem is people taking a technical term then using it in casual discussion, especially for something as complicated and diverse as diet and nutrition.
gruez 1y ago
The problem is that it's not necessarily the case that ultra-processing that actually makes the food unhealthy. It's a good rule of thumb, but we shouldn't pretend that's actually how the world works. This piece summarizes the point quite nicely: >Everyone knows that greens are good for your health and red meat is not. But everyone would laugh if I were to propose that red foods are dangerous and green ones healthy. I could prove my thesis making use of a few additional rules, such as postulating that some shades of red, tomatoes and apples for instance, should not be counted as red. >The Nova classification system, which sorts foods into four categories depending on the degree of processing they undergo, uses similar logic. There is no scientific justification for the assumption that the number of processing steps is of any relevance for the health properties of foods. Making “ultra-processed” popcorn or chips is exceedingly simple. Making “minimally processed” natural yogurt requires some 20 processes. >Heating is the process that affects foods the most, but heating is afforded no attention in Nova. It does not neatly fit into the processed or unprocessed scheme. In some cases it is essential for public health, in others it may induce carcinogens. And in a blatant example of the arbitrariness of the Nova classification, putting a loaf of bread into a bag moves it from the minimally processed to the ultra-processed category. >The flawed, but intuitively easy to grasp, label of ultra-processed food is a handy justification for blaming food-related health problems on profit-hungry food companies. And it enables politicians to divert funding from serious research to meaningless eye-catching interventions. >Petr Dejmek >Emeritus professor of food engineering >Lund University >Lund, Sweden

By “processes food hysteria stuff”, do you mean “the growing research consensus around ultra-processed foods”?

vmg12 1y ago

A category that includes both twinkies and whey protein powder doesn't seem that useful.

druskacik 1y ago
The rule of thumb is that the ultra-processed food should not account for a too large part of your diet. The protein powder is usually taken as a supplement and in small quantities, as opposed to food like twinkies people can easily overeat on. But try to make protein powder 80% of your protein intake and see how you'll feel in a week.
- square_usual 1y ago
  > But try to make protein powder 80% of your protein intake and see how you'll feel in a week. What? I've had >100g of protein from whey protein shakes every day for months now. I don't know what you're trying to imply.
  - FredPret 1y ago
    Whey protein is definitely among the better options, but I once did what you described, and then switched to eating a large amount of chicken breasts. I definitely feel a bit better, and have a much easier time building muscle. If you run the numbers, you can actually eat a shocking amout of protein (300g+ / day) from lean meat while maintaining a calorie deficit. And if you buy frozen chicken breasts from Costco, I think it’s actually cheaper than whey! That said - you do you, whey has its place in many lifestyles.
    - tempnew 1y ago
      I’ve heard you can cut intake by a third if you switch from chicken breast to fish. Not cheap but you can get frozen tilapia cheap and tuna is safe if limited to once or twice a week. Part of the problem with whey is processing and potential contamination, but also dyes and flavorings, which may be why you felt better without it.
      - FredPret 1y ago
        Yeah, plus it adds up to a lot of cacao since I bought the chocolate tubs from Costco. And that’s assuming it contains (only) what the label says. Our caveman ancestors did not eat fillers.
    - stef25 1y ago
      > frozen chicken breasts How do you make that taste good though
      - thaumasiotes 1y ago
        You cook them before eating.
      - FredPret 1y ago
        They come pre-brined, so any form of cooking that ends at 165F makes them incredibly juicy and good, even directly from frozen. BBQ is best.
  - throwsbzhshe 1y ago
    I’ve also been consuming 120g daily (about 4 scoops) of whey protein powder for 2.5 months now and feel perfectly fine.
    - piyushpr134 1y ago
      protein can shoot up your sugar levels too. Do hba1c tests after a month to make sure they are not
  - druskacik 1y ago
    Okay, I genuinely thought that consuming as much protein powder as you describe would make person feel sick, you surprised me. To each his own. The fact remains, research suggests overdosing on protein supplements has potential health hazards. "According to international consensus, the daily reference intake of protein for the healthy adult population is 0.8 g/kg body weight. However, individuals who engage in physical activity may require more protein, ranging from 1.2 to 2 grams per kilogram of body weight. To fulfill these requirements, many athletes and active individuals opt for whey protein (WP) supplements to increase their protein intake. The appropriate amount of WP intake for individuals depends on their objectives, current level of physical activity, and body composition. Research suggests that a dosage of 20 to 25 g/day of WP provides the desired benefits, while amounts >40 g/day may lead to adverse effects on the body"[0] [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10761008/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10761008/
    - gruez 1y ago
      Is that from the protein supplements themselves, or from consuming excessive protein in the first place? In other words if you ate the same amount but as steaks/eggs, would you feel the same symptoms?
      - hollerith 1y ago
        40 g of protein per day is only 6.1 oz of chicken tenderloins (raw weight) per day which is very unlikely to cause the effect described in the paper ("hyperfiltration and increased urinary calcium excretion which can, in turn, lead to chronic kidney disease development"). People who eat a lot of protein die sooner than people who eat less, but that is probably because plentiful protein prevents the body from entering a state called "autophagy". Intentionally inducing autophagy for 5 days every other month (by using Valter Longo's protocol) while eating plenty of protein the rest of the time is probably better for most people than a consistently low-protein diet as long as one is avoiding red meat (provided the people can afford the protein which will be the case for almost everyone in the developed world).
    - gamblor956 1y ago
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    As with all things it depends on you. In general lots of protein can impact blood sugar. Whey protein without sufficient exercise can cause liver issues, so you shouldn’t go crazy with it unless you’re regularly monitored by a doctor. (Standard blood panels would detect an issue iirc)
- vmg12 1y ago
  > But try to make protein powder 80% of your protein intake and see how you'll feel in a week This is true for any food though. A different line of argument would be what if 95% of your protein came from whey and all other nutrients came from other sources. As long as you get the right balance of macronutrients and micronutrients i suspect you will be fine. Unfortunately studies on diet are very difficult to actually implement so we don't have the data to be certain. Obviously most ultra processed food is low in nutrition, high in sugar, and high palateability so it makes sense that ultraprocessed foods are associated with bad health outcomes but I think it's a step too far to say that all ultra processed food is bad (it's probably a good rule of thumb for most people however).
albedoa 1y ago
Do you think that the poster who used the phrase "processes food hysteria stuff" unprompted is intending to make a statement about the broadness or usefulness of the category.
- vmg12 1y ago
  That's how I interpreted it. I don't think it's enough to say a food is unhealthy simply because it's ultra-processed.
  - albedoa 1y ago
    That is a pretty wild interpretation man. You absolutely do not need to be projecting meaning or motive onto these conspiracy theorists when they are telling you exactly what they believe.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

actsasbuffoon 1y ago

The bulk of the harm from ultra-processed foods was specifically from meats, with smaller contributions coming from sugary drinks and dairy desserts. It’s the pink slime, reconstituted McRib, and hot dogs that are causing the most significant health problems. Beyond burgers have no cholesterol, hormones, or antibiotics. They’ve got significantly lower saturated fats. Studies have shown that swapping out regular burgers for Beyond burgers lowers your LDL cholesterol and TMAO. I’m not going to pretend they’re as healthy as a burger made out of black beans and carrots. But if concerns about UPFs are your primary reason for avoiding them then you can relax; they’re not that bad.

graublau 1y ago
9/10 doctors recommend beyond meat can be part of a healthy diet.
- Spooky23 1y ago
  A stick of lard can be part of a healthy diet. Just like its meat equivalent, moderation matters.
- Saline9515 1y ago
  "More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarettes!" https://tobacco.stanford.edu/cigarettes/doctors-smoking/more-doctors-smoke-camels/ https://tobacco.stanford.edu/cigarettes/doctors-smoking/more...
lanfeust6 1y ago
The obesity crisis, and metabolic syndrome issues, has far more to do with sugary drinks and snacks made up of flour and oil devoid of fiber and protein. The risk attributed to processed meat is cancer, and CVD by extension of being meat and fatty, not BC its processed. People don't really consume that much "processed meat" on the daily in the form of salami or w/e.

rpdillon 1y ago

As a skeptic, I think that they have defined too broad of an umbrella in the research, and so they're sweeping up huge swaths of people's diet under one label and then claiming it's bad. Up thread, people are talking about using minced soy protein. I'm kind of surprised that itself is not ultra processed, given that bread flour is considered to be ultra processed.

anon84873628 1y ago
Soy protein isolate is considered ultra processed just like whey. The problem is people taking a technical term then using it in casual discussion, especially for something as complicated and diverse as diet and nutrition.

gruez 1y ago

The problem is that it's not necessarily the case that ultra-processing that actually makes the food unhealthy. It's a good rule of thumb, but we shouldn't pretend that's actually how the world works. This piece summarizes the point quite nicely: >Everyone knows that greens are good for your health and red meat is not. But everyone would laugh if I were to propose that red foods are dangerous and green ones healthy. I could prove my thesis making use of a few additional rules, such as postulating that some shades of red, tomatoes and apples for instance, should not be counted as red. >The Nova classification system, which sorts foods into four categories depending on the degree of processing they undergo, uses similar logic. There is no scientific justification for the assumption that the number of processing steps is of any relevance for the health properties of foods. Making “ultra-processed” popcorn or chips is exceedingly simple. Making “minimally processed” natural yogurt requires some 20 processes. >Heating is the process that affects foods the most, but heating is afforded no attention in Nova. It does not neatly fit into the processed or unprocessed scheme. In some cases it is essential for public health, in others it may induce carcinogens. And in a blatant example of the arbitrariness of the Nova classification, putting a loaf of bread into a bag moves it from the minimally processed to the ultra-processed category. >The flawed, but intuitively easy to grasp, label of ultra-processed food is a handy justification for blaming food-related health problems on profit-hungry food companies. And it enables politicians to divert funding from serious research to meaningless eye-catching interventions. >Petr Dejmek >Emeritus professor of food engineering >Lund University >Lund, Sweden