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And this as well: > The company expects the figure to reach about $330 million in 2025, roughly 10% higher than it was six years earlier despite a huge increas

And this as well: > The company expects the figure to reach about $330 million in 2025, roughly 10% higher than it was six years earlier despite a huge increase in the number of products offered. It’s not like they have any growth potential to speak of that would enable them to service that debt. It’s a bit hard to see who their target market is or, rather, it’s a bit hard to see that the market segment they’re aiming for is big enough for them to grow at an appreciable rate. To me it reads like they just didn’t do their homework up-front - e.g., an in depth segmentation - in determining their addressable market. Vegetarians and vegans I know want protein sources in their diets but they don’t necessarily want meat substitutes, so perhaps BM’s products aren’t that appealing to them. Meat eaters possibly have low awareness of BM and, unless they’re particularly principled - and wealthy enough to absorb the additional cost - are unlikely to pay the same price, or more (at least here in the UK), for meat substitutes than they’d pay for actual meat. Moreover, people I know who are trying to cut down on meat, like their veggie and vegan counterparts, mostly aren’t looking for meat substitutes in their meat-free meals either. If BM’s products were more affordable and better advertised they’d have a better chance at widespread adoption but it’s very hard to plot a route from where they are now to there. Also, this doesn’t solve for the portion of the market who aren’t looking for explicitly meaty meat substitutes. As you say, it does appear hopeless. (FWIW, I’ve eaten BM burgers on several occasions. They’re excellent but I’m not normally willing to pay the premium for them versus actual beef patties, or making our own.)

jebarker 1y ago
I would guess the primary target market is ex meat eaters that are trying to go vegetarian but have been raised to enjoy the taste/texture of meat. I am in this group. I agree it’s not a very large market for the reasons you stated above. However, maybe BM hoped they could grow that market, I.e. convince more meat eaters to give it up for ethical reasons.
- Lord-Jobo 1y ago
  I am in a similar group; the mostly-vegetarian. Chicken when I don't have a real choice, red meat at a wedding like once a year or something. I like beyond meat products, the price is obviously a problem but they go on sale locally frequently enough to be a good substitute for us. Something about them I HATE though is that they have two burger products that are extremely similar with one main difference: product A is kept frozen and requires thawing to cool properly and product B is kept frozen and cooks from frozen. They are so similar that we accidentally get the wrong one all the time. Once cooked, both products are indistinguishable from an eating perspective. Get product A the fuck outta here, please.
  - UltraSane 1y ago
    Same. Chicken, eggs, and yogurt are the only animal products I consume regularly.
- UltraSane 1y ago
  "raised to enjoy the taste/texture of meat" Humans have evolved to enjoy the taste/texture/smell of cooked meat
  - xeromal 1y ago
    Yeah, their comment gave me a chuckle. lol
    - bartread 1y ago
      Yeah. HN doesn't really have a sense of humour, which I used to find frustrating, but which (having now spent a lot more time on other forums, like Reddit), I fully appreciate the wisdom of. I am, along certain axes, a big fan of DIY forums like the r/DIYUK subreddit, and it pisses me off to no end that when anybody asks a serious question looking for serious help the top 5 comments will, as like as not, be bullshit, cheap, obvious, "funny" one-liners from people whose sense of humour has never evolved beyond the playground and that contain zero useful information. I've even considered volunteering as a mod on that particular sub just so I can delete all of these "humorous" comments so that the actual useful information makes it to the top of the page. So, yeah, I've come around to the HN point of view on humour. But, nevertheless, like you, I found this funny.
      - bluebarbet 1y ago
        Slashdot's system was best. No upvoting, certainly no downvoting, just a small vocabulary of tags: "informative", "insightful", "irrelevant", etc. And of course "funny". That way you can literally turn the humor off!
  - jebarker 1y ago
    If you speak with vegetarians/vegans who have been raised that way and never eaten meat you will find many that are repulsed by it. Nurture seems to be able to override nature here and, as far as I’m aware, there’s no strong evidence that we’re born with an inherent taste for meat, we’re just born with bodies that need certain nutrients that are easily obtained from meat but can be found elsewhere.
- rolandog 1y ago
  Why would it have to only be ex-meat eaters? It may be just my (admittedly biased) opinion, but I think that Big Meat has managed to turn meat-eating into a quasi-religion — almost like football. I also try to not shy away from knowing where my food comes from, and how it was processed and produced; if you know about the cruel and unsanitary living conditions for cattle, the underpaid and overworked labor that helps process it, and the deforestation and water needed in order to produce it... you then find the meat does not go down as easy anymore. Which, not to rain down on everyone's BBQ, but I personally find it ridiculous how we have been protecting people's feelings during flip-a-patty time more than the environment! Sorry for the rant — not personally directed at you... but, I ... clearly feel strongly about the subject. Full disclosure: not vegan nor vegetarian, and perhaps even a hypocrite for writing a (hopefully not too) holier-than-thou rant and eating unhealthy amounts of junk food occasionally.
  - jebarker 1y ago
    I totally agree with your strong feelings on the meat industry. The reason I said the main market is ex meat eaters is because if you’re still eating meat then any craving for the taste/texture/smell of meat is at least getting partially satisfied by the meat you’re still eating. There’s definitely some market for people just trying to cut down on meat though, and that’s great too.
    - rolandog 1y ago
      Thanks for steelmanning my argument. Definitely agree that texture (and price) will play a big factor in weaning off people from authentic meat. I hope we are able to surpass the challenges we're facing and live to see healthy food sources that are also within reach (physically and economically) for all people.
twic 1y ago
I think the company was a bet that if you make a good enough meat substitute, then meat eaters will switch to it (sometimes), and that's a huge total addressable market. I would say that bet has not come off. But that's hindsight - the whole point of startups is to take bets.
- bartread 1y ago
  I think you're right: that was definitely the bet, but it really should have entered their heads that being more expensive than actual meat[0] would guarantee the bet wouldn't pay off. [0] Again, in the UK: I'm not familiar enough with their pricing in other markets to know if that's the case globally. IMO you'd have to be out of your mind to imagine a meaty tasting meat substitute would succeed in the US if it was more expensive than actual meat so, if the high price holds in the US, it should be no surprise that they're failing.
zahlman 1y ago
> Vegetarians and vegans I know want protein sources in their diets but they don’t necessarily want meat substitutes, so perhaps BM’s products aren’t that appealing to them. When Beyond Meat announced their IPO, I can recall thinking quite distinctly: "wait, this isn't the Impossible Burger. They aren't even making any kind of breakthrough in the 'convincing meat substitute' department in the first place. And this stuff is expensive. Who tf is this for?" > Moreover, people I know who are trying to cut down on meat, like their veggie and vegan counterparts, mostly aren’t looking for meat substitutes in their meat-free meals either. It's true. I eat probably considerably less meat than I did many years ago. Which is to say, still in generous portions, but not every day (I still freely eat dairy). When I supplement with vegetable sources of protein, I'm just preparing legumes (and grains) normally, without even the slightest desire to make them "meat-like". I've had "ordinary" vegetarian burgers before. I don't even evaluate them as a substitute, but as their own thing.
cloudbonsai 1y ago
> If BM’s products were more affordable One thing worth noting here is that, contrary to the popular belief, Beyond Meat is not a high-margin business. You can check out their latest financial result (2025 1Q) to confirm this: First Quarter 2025 Financial Highlights - Net revenues were $68.7 million, a decrease of 9.1% year-over-year. - Gross profit was a loss of $1.1 million, or gross margin of -1.5%, compared to gross profit of $3.7 million, or gross margin of 4.9%, in the year-ago period. https://investors.beyondmeat.com/news-releases/news-release-details/beyond-meatr-reports-first-quarter-2025-financial-results/ https://investors.beyondmeat.com/news-releases/news-release-... Basically they are spending $95-101 to produce $100-worth of plant meat. Compared to traditional meat companies, Homel (SPAM) is operating at 20% gross margin and Pilgrim (chicken) is at 10%. BM is barely profitable even before sales and administrative expenses.

jebarker 1y ago

I would guess the primary target market is ex meat eaters that are trying to go vegetarian but have been raised to enjoy the taste/texture of meat. I am in this group. I agree it’s not a very large market for the reasons you stated above. However, maybe BM hoped they could grow that market, I.e. convince more meat eaters to give it up for ethical reasons.

Lord-Jobo 1y ago
I am in a similar group; the mostly-vegetarian. Chicken when I don't have a real choice, red meat at a wedding like once a year or something. I like beyond meat products, the price is obviously a problem but they go on sale locally frequently enough to be a good substitute for us. Something about them I HATE though is that they have two burger products that are extremely similar with one main difference: product A is kept frozen and requires thawing to cool properly and product B is kept frozen and cooks from frozen. They are so similar that we accidentally get the wrong one all the time. Once cooked, both products are indistinguishable from an eating perspective. Get product A the fuck outta here, please.
- UltraSane 1y ago
  Same. Chicken, eggs, and yogurt are the only animal products I consume regularly.
UltraSane 1y ago
"raised to enjoy the taste/texture of meat" Humans have evolved to enjoy the taste/texture/smell of cooked meat
- xeromal 1y ago
  Yeah, their comment gave me a chuckle. lol
  - bartread 1y ago
    Yeah. HN doesn't really have a sense of humour, which I used to find frustrating, but which (having now spent a lot more time on other forums, like Reddit), I fully appreciate the wisdom of. I am, along certain axes, a big fan of DIY forums like the r/DIYUK subreddit, and it pisses me off to no end that when anybody asks a serious question looking for serious help the top 5 comments will, as like as not, be bullshit, cheap, obvious, "funny" one-liners from people whose sense of humour has never evolved beyond the playground and that contain zero useful information. I've even considered volunteering as a mod on that particular sub just so I can delete all of these "humorous" comments so that the actual useful information makes it to the top of the page. So, yeah, I've come around to the HN point of view on humour. But, nevertheless, like you, I found this funny.
    - bluebarbet 1y ago
      Slashdot's system was best. No upvoting, certainly no downvoting, just a small vocabulary of tags: "informative", "insightful", "irrelevant", etc. And of course "funny". That way you can literally turn the humor off!
- jebarker 1y ago
  If you speak with vegetarians/vegans who have been raised that way and never eaten meat you will find many that are repulsed by it. Nurture seems to be able to override nature here and, as far as I’m aware, there’s no strong evidence that we’re born with an inherent taste for meat, we’re just born with bodies that need certain nutrients that are easily obtained from meat but can be found elsewhere.
rolandog 1y ago
Why would it have to only be ex-meat eaters? It may be just my (admittedly biased) opinion, but I think that Big Meat has managed to turn meat-eating into a quasi-religion — almost like football. I also try to not shy away from knowing where my food comes from, and how it was processed and produced; if you know about the cruel and unsanitary living conditions for cattle, the underpaid and overworked labor that helps process it, and the deforestation and water needed in order to produce it... you then find the meat does not go down as easy anymore. Which, not to rain down on everyone's BBQ, but I personally find it ridiculous how we have been protecting people's feelings during flip-a-patty time more than the environment! Sorry for the rant — not personally directed at you... but, I ... clearly feel strongly about the subject. Full disclosure: not vegan nor vegetarian, and perhaps even a hypocrite for writing a (hopefully not too) holier-than-thou rant and eating unhealthy amounts of junk food occasionally.
- jebarker 1y ago
  I totally agree with your strong feelings on the meat industry. The reason I said the main market is ex meat eaters is because if you’re still eating meat then any craving for the taste/texture/smell of meat is at least getting partially satisfied by the meat you’re still eating. There’s definitely some market for people just trying to cut down on meat though, and that’s great too.
  - rolandog 1y ago
    Thanks for steelmanning my argument. Definitely agree that texture (and price) will play a big factor in weaning off people from authentic meat. I hope we are able to surpass the challenges we're facing and live to see healthy food sources that are also within reach (physically and economically) for all people.

twic 1y ago

I think the company was a bet that if you make a good enough meat substitute, then meat eaters will switch to it (sometimes), and that's a huge total addressable market. I would say that bet has not come off. But that's hindsight - the whole point of startups is to take bets.

bartread 1y ago
I think you're right: that was definitely the bet, but it really should have entered their heads that being more expensive than actual meat[0] would guarantee the bet wouldn't pay off. [0] Again, in the UK: I'm not familiar enough with their pricing in other markets to know if that's the case globally. IMO you'd have to be out of your mind to imagine a meaty tasting meat substitute would succeed in the US if it was more expensive than actual meat so, if the high price holds in the US, it should be no surprise that they're failing.

zahlman 1y ago

> Vegetarians and vegans I know want protein sources in their diets but they don’t necessarily want meat substitutes, so perhaps BM’s products aren’t that appealing to them. When Beyond Meat announced their IPO, I can recall thinking quite distinctly: "wait, this isn't the Impossible Burger. They aren't even making any kind of breakthrough in the 'convincing meat substitute' department in the first place. And this stuff is expensive. Who tf is this for?" > Moreover, people I know who are trying to cut down on meat, like their veggie and vegan counterparts, mostly aren’t looking for meat substitutes in their meat-free meals either. It's true. I eat probably considerably less meat than I did many years ago. Which is to say, still in generous portions, but not every day (I still freely eat dairy). When I supplement with vegetable sources of protein, I'm just preparing legumes (and grains) normally, without even the slightest desire to make them "meat-like". I've had "ordinary" vegetarian burgers before. I don't even evaluate them as a substitute, but as their own thing.

cloudbonsai 1y ago

> If BM’s products were more affordable One thing worth noting here is that, contrary to the popular belief, Beyond Meat is not a high-margin business. You can check out their latest financial result (2025 1Q) to confirm this: First Quarter 2025 Financial Highlights - Net revenues were $68.7 million, a decrease of 9.1% year-over-year. - Gross profit was a loss of $1.1 million, or gross margin of -1.5%, compared to gross profit of $3.7 million, or gross margin of 4.9%, in the year-ago period. https://investors.beyondmeat.com/news-releases/news-release-details/beyond-meatr-reports-first-quarter-2025-financial-results/ https://investors.beyondmeat.com/news-releases/news-release-... Basically they are spending $95-101 to produce $100-worth of plant meat. Compared to traditional meat companies, Homel (SPAM) is operating at 20% gross margin and Pilgrim (chicken) is at 10%. BM is barely profitable even before sales and administrative expenses.