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Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming incr

by mayas_ 1y ago

Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

cantor_S_drug 1y ago
That is uniquely american or first world experience. I won't comment on the mechanisms of wealth transfer from rest of the world to first world. The rest of the world has been very hardworking and trying to make it one day at a time. Here's an example. A Day in Life of Africa’s Wooden Scooter Crew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk
- lioeters 1y ago
  Great recommendation, I'm watching it now. It reminds me of another documentary about a festival with hand-built vehicles made of recycled Vespas that are extremely customized. Indonesia’s Tricked Out Vespas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg
jstummbillig 1y ago
> Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Adjusted for inflation, car prices are actually lower now than decades ago, especially factoring in huge safety and tech improvements. Entry-level models remain affordable, while buyers voluntarily pay more for SUVs and tech-heavy EVs. > Housing is becoming a luxury. Rising housing prices are mostly driven by land scarcity and zoning. The actual cost per square meter of construction (build quality) has improved and remains stable. > Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Nope. Electronics, clothing, and appliances have become dramatically cheaper. Quality-adjusted prices for TVs and computers have plummeted. > Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship. Craftsmanship is alive and well, if you are willing to pay for it. Which most consumers are not; they prefer being able to afford more things at lower prices and quicker tech cycles.
- amluto 1y ago
  > The actual cost per square meter of construction (build quality) has improved and remains stable. Do you have a source? And are you considering expensive markets (cough, Los Angeles)?
- ghaff 1y ago
  Generally agree. In snowbelt (and even somewhat sub-snowbelt) regions, cars would pretty much rust out at 50K miles and starting when conditions were wet or cold could be an adventure. And, while I have the option of buying an expensive "handmade" (with the aid of expensive CNC equipment) dining room table--which I have done--I also have the option of buying a sturdy and nice-looking mail-order bed for $300 that I assemble. Housing is the main thing but, as you say, that's mostly a matter of location. There are a ton of cheaper locations but many don't want to live there--even if they're fairly accessible to a major city.
- carlosjobim 1y ago
  > Adjusted for inflation, car prices are actually lower now than decades ago And so are salaries. Just compare what kind of job you needed to be able to afford a car 40 years ago to today. Reality is still reality, people live in it and face it everyday.
  - LorenPechtel 1y ago
    Disagree. Real wages are ahead of all market sectors except medical and rent. People are making a bad comparison--they look at what they have vs what their parents have and see their parents doing better. Yeah, 20 or 30 years later in their career, plus a lot of time building up assets, that's actually to be expected. The proper comparison is between cohorts, but that can only be done by digging into the data, not by experience. Wealth inequality? The majority is from comparing those starting out to those at retirement. Likewise, the majority of income inequality is hours worked. (Not to say that there aren't other factors, but in both cases when you compare apples to apples it explains more than half the range.)
    - 1y ago
AdrianB1 1y ago
Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive because they get more and more stuff included. I owned cars in the 90's and cars from 2015, the newer one came in the basic trim with stuff that adds to complexity and cost, from AC and electric windows to dozen aibags, sensors and driving aids. For housing, there are 2 things that happened: regulations made houses more expensive to build (I personally built 3 houses in the past 35 years, I saw the increase in cost) and second thing is house prices are totally disconnected to cost, my current home is evaluated (for tax purpose) about 3 times the real cost to build it. Except the buyers, everyone is happy to have a huge increase in housing cost, builders make more money, local governments raise more taxes, buyers are screwed from all sides and not many people go build their own, even if it many places is still possible (I currently planning to build a house for some friends). But in a way building a house is cheaper: tools, technology and new materials make it faster and cheaper to build. It should make houses more affordable, if the other factors would not completely eat this saving.
- pas 1y ago
  FYI (and for anyone who wants) to see data on this check out this blog https://www.construction-physics.com/p/what-makes-housing-so-expensive https://www.construction-physics.com/p/what-makes-housing-so... https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-are-homes-in-western-states-so https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-are-homes-in-west...
SapporoChris 1y ago
BYD launches new 2025 Dolphin EV with the same $14K price tag and more range. https://electrek.co/2024/07/08/byd-launches-2025-dolphin-ev-14k-price-more-range/ https://electrek.co/2024/07/08/byd-launches-2025-dolphin-ev-... The problems you mentioned are a local problem, not a global problem.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
whoisyc 1y ago
Car prices are affected by ease of financing and a huge second hand market. The former make it easier to “afford” a fancy vehicle (whether or not you actually afford it is another question) and the later means fierce competition in the lower parts of the market making cheap cars less profitable.
terminalshort 1y ago
No they aren't https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1KJks https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1KJks
dahart 1y ago
> Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive This isn’t true. There are dozens of car models near $20k today, and most of the base model inexpensive cars in the US have always cost around today’s $20k-$30k in adjusted dollars. Even the Ford model T: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0512/how-inflation-has-affected-the-price-of-cars.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0512/how-inflati... Quality of cars today is unquestionably better, and the number of features and conveniences is unquestionably higher. Cars last longer than they used to, a lot longer on average. There’s ample stats on this. The average price of cars has gone up slowly relative to inflation because there are now better cars to choose from, and people choose to pay more. But you can’t even buy something as bad as a 1930s or 1950s or 1980s car today, and you can get a much better car now for less money than you could then.

by mayas_ 1y ago

cantor_S_drug 1y ago

That is uniquely american or first world experience. I won't comment on the mechanisms of wealth transfer from rest of the world to first world. The rest of the world has been very hardworking and trying to make it one day at a time. Here's an example. A Day in Life of Africa’s Wooden Scooter Crew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk

lioeters 1y ago
Great recommendation, I'm watching it now. It reminds me of another documentary about a festival with hand-built vehicles made of recycled Vespas that are extremely customized. Indonesia’s Tricked Out Vespas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg

jstummbillig 1y ago

> Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Adjusted for inflation, car prices are actually lower now than decades ago, especially factoring in huge safety and tech improvements. Entry-level models remain affordable, while buyers voluntarily pay more for SUVs and tech-heavy EVs. > Housing is becoming a luxury. Rising housing prices are mostly driven by land scarcity and zoning. The actual cost per square meter of construction (build quality) has improved and remains stable. > Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Nope. Electronics, clothing, and appliances have become dramatically cheaper. Quality-adjusted prices for TVs and computers have plummeted. > Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship. Craftsmanship is alive and well, if you are willing to pay for it. Which most consumers are not; they prefer being able to afford more things at lower prices and quicker tech cycles.

amluto 1y ago
> The actual cost per square meter of construction (build quality) has improved and remains stable. Do you have a source? And are you considering expensive markets (cough, Los Angeles)?
ghaff 1y ago
Generally agree. In snowbelt (and even somewhat sub-snowbelt) regions, cars would pretty much rust out at 50K miles and starting when conditions were wet or cold could be an adventure. And, while I have the option of buying an expensive "handmade" (with the aid of expensive CNC equipment) dining room table--which I have done--I also have the option of buying a sturdy and nice-looking mail-order bed for $300 that I assemble. Housing is the main thing but, as you say, that's mostly a matter of location. There are a ton of cheaper locations but many don't want to live there--even if they're fairly accessible to a major city.
carlosjobim 1y ago
> Adjusted for inflation, car prices are actually lower now than decades ago And so are salaries. Just compare what kind of job you needed to be able to afford a car 40 years ago to today. Reality is still reality, people live in it and face it everyday.
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  Disagree. Real wages are ahead of all market sectors except medical and rent. People are making a bad comparison--they look at what they have vs what their parents have and see their parents doing better. Yeah, 20 or 30 years later in their career, plus a lot of time building up assets, that's actually to be expected. The proper comparison is between cohorts, but that can only be done by digging into the data, not by experience. Wealth inequality? The majority is from comparing those starting out to those at retirement. Likewise, the majority of income inequality is hours worked. (Not to say that there aren't other factors, but in both cases when you compare apples to apples it explains more than half the range.)
  - 1y ago

AdrianB1 1y ago

Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive because they get more and more stuff included. I owned cars in the 90's and cars from 2015, the newer one came in the basic trim with stuff that adds to complexity and cost, from AC and electric windows to dozen aibags, sensors and driving aids. For housing, there are 2 things that happened: regulations made houses more expensive to build (I personally built 3 houses in the past 35 years, I saw the increase in cost) and second thing is house prices are totally disconnected to cost, my current home is evaluated (for tax purpose) about 3 times the real cost to build it. Except the buyers, everyone is happy to have a huge increase in housing cost, builders make more money, local governments raise more taxes, buyers are screwed from all sides and not many people go build their own, even if it many places is still possible (I currently planning to build a house for some friends). But in a way building a house is cheaper: tools, technology and new materials make it faster and cheaper to build. It should make houses more affordable, if the other factors would not completely eat this saving.

pas 1y ago
FYI (and for anyone who wants) to see data on this check out this blog https://www.construction-physics.com/p/what-makes-housing-so-expensive https://www.construction-physics.com/p/what-makes-housing-so... https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-are-homes-in-western-states-so https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-are-homes-in-west...

SapporoChris 1y ago

BYD launches new 2025 Dolphin EV with the same $14K price tag and more range. https://electrek.co/2024/07/08/byd-launches-2025-dolphin-ev-14k-price-more-range/ https://electrek.co/2024/07/08/byd-launches-2025-dolphin-ev-... The problems you mentioned are a local problem, not a global problem.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

whoisyc 1y ago

Car prices are affected by ease of financing and a huge second hand market. The former make it easier to “afford” a fancy vehicle (whether or not you actually afford it is another question) and the later means fierce competition in the lower parts of the market making cheap cars less profitable.

terminalshort 1y ago

No they aren't https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1KJks https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1KJks

dahart 1y ago

> Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive This isn’t true. There are dozens of car models near $20k today, and most of the base model inexpensive cars in the US have always cost around today’s $20k-$30k in adjusted dollars. Even the Ford model T: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0512/how-inflation-has-affected-the-price-of-cars.aspx https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0512/how-inflati... Quality of cars today is unquestionably better, and the number of features and conveniences is unquestionably higher. Cars last longer than they used to, a lot longer on average. There’s ample stats on this. The average price of cars has gone up slowly relative to inflation because there are now better cars to choose from, and people choose to pay more. But you can’t even buy something as bad as a 1930s or 1950s or 1980s car today, and you can get a much better car now for less money than you could then.