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I'm not sure if this is quite related, but I can't help but feel that a lot of the ills of society that we're witnessing is simply coming down to the fact that

by dottjt 1y ago

I'm not sure if this is quite related, but I can't help but feel that a lot of the ills of society that we're witnessing is simply coming down to the fact that we're living a lot longer as people. I feel like knowing that we might live well-beyond our working age has caused all sorts of odd/irrational behaviours in the way we approach life. I think for example, having to save for retirement makes us rethink how we spend our money. Which then means people are ultimately spending less on other things i.e. clothing. Then it becomes a kind of vicious cycle of hoarding wealth, but then expecting everything else to be cheap (at any cost). Whereas it's like, if you expected that you would die in your 50s/60s you'd probably be happier spending your money on stuff that you felt served you better, irrespective of the cost, cause you're still working and able to service that lifestyle.

ath3nd 1y ago
Have you considered that it's not that we are spending money on cheap stuff, it's that even expensive stuff is built to not last with the incentive you come back for more? You do realize there are whole R&D departments working on planned obsolescence. - Apple's planned obsolescence on batteries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate - Window's 10 to 11 garbage hardware requirements: https://www.euroconsumers.org/microsoft-security-windows-10-planned-obsolescence/ https://www.euroconsumers.org/microsoft-security-windows-10-... If an OS's new version is supposedly...faster and better written, why does it require newer hardware? - Apple's right to repair fight: https://sustainablebrands.com/read/apple-support-right-to-repair https://sustainablebrands.com/read/apple-support-right-to-re... and then, when they saw they can't support this position anymore, suddenly becoming a champion of sustainability - Apple's refusal to change their idiotic charging cables to a standard one, so they can sell you crap that works on no other device. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66778528 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66778528 I know Apple are mentioned a lot here, but they are a perfect example of what happens when nobody calls out a monopoly on their shady practices. > but I can't help but feel that a lot of the ills of society that we're witnessing is simply coming down to the fact that we're living a lot longer as people. Ah yes blame it on the consumer, who dares to live longer. > Whereas it's like, if you expected that you would die in your 50s/60s you'd probably be happier spending your money on stuff that you felt served you better, irrespective of the cost, cause you're still working and able to service that lifestyle. I don't get the logic here. If I knew I would live to 100, would it not make sense to buy stuff that serves me well over the long run (i.e more expensive)?
- dottjt 1y ago
  I'm not sure if those examples are really applicable when there are perfectly fine alternatives i.e. linux, desktops etc. that don't have those issues. Ultimately it's a choice to be part of those eco-systems, at least from a consumer point of view. With that said, I'm not sure why both our arguments have to be mutually exclusive? Why can't it be that things are being planned for obsolescence + we're living too long? Regarding your last point, let's say that you did know you were going to live to 100, I think you'd be hard pressed to be able to afford a lot of that nice stuff which would serve you in the long run without working into retirement age (unless if you just happen to very wealthy). I earn a relatively high salary and even if I was making the most of my retirement contributions and considering compounding, it would still only last me by 90 without requiring state assistance. And most importantly, that's if I were to maintain my current lifestyle, which includes buying the cheap shit I can afford (in part so I can keep up with funding retirement). I couldn't imagine how much harder it would be for those on an average salary.
- brucehoult 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ath3nd 1y ago
    > Apple's slowing down the clock speed allows people to use a phone with an old and dying battery for longer before they need to replace either the device or the battery. That's laughable. Apple before 2023 didn't even allow you to replace yourself unless you had their crappy plan. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8306588?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8306588?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253345955?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253345955?sortBy=rank https://www.wired.com/story/iphone-16-battery-is-easier-to-replace/ https://www.wired.com/story/iphone-16-battery-is-easier-to-r... And their lightning adapters were a deliberate strategy so they keep you on their system and sell you commodity hardware at a premium pricing. Until the EU forced them to use standard chargers to reduce the mountain of e-waste that's directly tied to Apple's shady practices. > Lightning cables are superior to the "standard" USB-C. It's a travesty against freedom of choice that the EU has legislated against them. You have the freedom of choice to use an old IPhone with an old Lightning cable, since they are "superior" to USB-C, and old IPhones are apparently of such high quality. OR you can go with the far worse (according to you) USB-c standard which allows charging, video and data transfer and internet connectivity. > 2018 and 2021 and still I think look the same as new. Colours haven't faded Wow, a shirt lasting 4 years, impressive! > I don't find the complaints valid about anything else either. The tshirts in my weekly rotation were bought -- I just checked my emails ....In short: yes, there is plenty of cheap crap around -- I actually think this is a good thing for people who will not be using it heavily. "who will not be using it heavily" is a reference to the fact that sometimes cheap nowadays crap is poisonous and you might not live to see another day? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/20/eu-commissioner-shocked-dangerous-goods-sold-shein-temu https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/20/eu-commissi...

by dottjt 1y ago

ath3nd 1y ago

Have you considered that it's not that we are spending money on cheap stuff, it's that even expensive stuff is built to not last with the incentive you come back for more? You do realize there are whole R&D departments working on planned obsolescence. - Apple's planned obsolescence on batteries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate - Window's 10 to 11 garbage hardware requirements: https://www.euroconsumers.org/microsoft-security-windows-10-planned-obsolescence/ https://www.euroconsumers.org/microsoft-security-windows-10-... If an OS's new version is supposedly...faster and better written, why does it require newer hardware? - Apple's right to repair fight: https://sustainablebrands.com/read/apple-support-right-to-repair https://sustainablebrands.com/read/apple-support-right-to-re... and then, when they saw they can't support this position anymore, suddenly becoming a champion of sustainability - Apple's refusal to change their idiotic charging cables to a standard one, so they can sell you crap that works on no other device. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66778528 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66778528 I know Apple are mentioned a lot here, but they are a perfect example of what happens when nobody calls out a monopoly on their shady practices. > but I can't help but feel that a lot of the ills of society that we're witnessing is simply coming down to the fact that we're living a lot longer as people. Ah yes blame it on the consumer, who dares to live longer. > Whereas it's like, if you expected that you would die in your 50s/60s you'd probably be happier spending your money on stuff that you felt served you better, irrespective of the cost, cause you're still working and able to service that lifestyle. I don't get the logic here. If I knew I would live to 100, would it not make sense to buy stuff that serves me well over the long run (i.e more expensive)?

dottjt 1y ago
I'm not sure if those examples are really applicable when there are perfectly fine alternatives i.e. linux, desktops etc. that don't have those issues. Ultimately it's a choice to be part of those eco-systems, at least from a consumer point of view. With that said, I'm not sure why both our arguments have to be mutually exclusive? Why can't it be that things are being planned for obsolescence + we're living too long? Regarding your last point, let's say that you did know you were going to live to 100, I think you'd be hard pressed to be able to afford a lot of that nice stuff which would serve you in the long run without working into retirement age (unless if you just happen to very wealthy). I earn a relatively high salary and even if I was making the most of my retirement contributions and considering compounding, it would still only last me by 90 without requiring state assistance. And most importantly, that's if I were to maintain my current lifestyle, which includes buying the cheap shit I can afford (in part so I can keep up with funding retirement). I couldn't imagine how much harder it would be for those on an average salary.
brucehoult 1y ago
[flagged]
- ath3nd 1y ago
  > Apple's slowing down the clock speed allows people to use a phone with an old and dying battery for longer before they need to replace either the device or the battery. That's laughable. Apple before 2023 didn't even allow you to replace yourself unless you had their crappy plan. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8306588?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8306588?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253345955?sortBy=rank https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253345955?sortBy=rank https://www.wired.com/story/iphone-16-battery-is-easier-to-replace/ https://www.wired.com/story/iphone-16-battery-is-easier-to-r... And their lightning adapters were a deliberate strategy so they keep you on their system and sell you commodity hardware at a premium pricing. Until the EU forced them to use standard chargers to reduce the mountain of e-waste that's directly tied to Apple's shady practices. > Lightning cables are superior to the "standard" USB-C. It's a travesty against freedom of choice that the EU has legislated against them. You have the freedom of choice to use an old IPhone with an old Lightning cable, since they are "superior" to USB-C, and old IPhones are apparently of such high quality. OR you can go with the far worse (according to you) USB-c standard which allows charging, video and data transfer and internet connectivity. > 2018 and 2021 and still I think look the same as new. Colours haven't faded Wow, a shirt lasting 4 years, impressive! > I don't find the complaints valid about anything else either. The tshirts in my weekly rotation were bought -- I just checked my emails ....In short: yes, there is plenty of cheap crap around -- I actually think this is a good thing for people who will not be using it heavily. "who will not be using it heavily" is a reference to the fact that sometimes cheap nowadays crap is poisonous and you might not live to see another day? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/20/eu-commissioner-shocked-dangerous-goods-sold-shein-temu https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jul/20/eu-commissi...