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Regarding the turtle and the goldfish, how can we really say these animals learned how to operate these things? I’m not sure I’d be able to tell the difference

Regarding the turtle and the goldfish, how can we really say these animals learned how to operate these things? I’m not sure I’d be able to tell the difference between a goldfish just swimming around the tank like normal versus one swimming around the tank with intention.

akdor1154 1y ago
I assume a fish that didn’t understand what was going on would just run into walls? Or at most just move towards lights?
- BalinKing 1y ago
  The top-level comment indeed says that the fish was bumping into things like a Roomba, so I’m also skeptical....
  - trhway 1y ago
    judge for yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nhp7U0rwdM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nhp7U0rwdM
    - lioeters 1y ago
      Oh that's a more proper study than the amateur experiment I saw. > For this purpose, we trained goldfish to use a Fish Operated Vehicle (FOV), a wheeled terrestrial platform that reacts to the fish’s movement characteristics, location and orientation in its water tank to change the vehicle’s; i.e., the water tank’s, position in the arena. > The fish were tasked to “drive” the FOV towards a visual target in the terrestrial environment, which was observable through the walls of the tank, and indeed were able to operate the vehicle, explore the new environment, and reach the target regardless of the starting point, all while avoiding dead-ends and correcting location inaccuracies. From fish out of water to new insights on navigation mechanisms in animals - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166432821005994?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01664...
trhway 1y ago
lets start working our beliefs up from easier places : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_0ImDYrPY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_0ImDYrPY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7H2IDc-5QdQ https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7H2IDc-5QdQ
DougN7 1y ago
You’ll need to watch the video of the turtle. It was actively chasing a cat around, so it definitely knew what it was doing.
- lioeters 1y ago
  Tiny Turtle Follows Cat On a Skateboard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVbtAYPSapw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVbtAYPSapw

akdor1154 1y ago

I assume a fish that didn’t understand what was going on would just run into walls? Or at most just move towards lights?

BalinKing 1y ago
The top-level comment indeed says that the fish was bumping into things like a Roomba, so I’m also skeptical....
- trhway 1y ago
  judge for yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nhp7U0rwdM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nhp7U0rwdM
  - lioeters 1y ago
    Oh that's a more proper study than the amateur experiment I saw. > For this purpose, we trained goldfish to use a Fish Operated Vehicle (FOV), a wheeled terrestrial platform that reacts to the fish’s movement characteristics, location and orientation in its water tank to change the vehicle’s; i.e., the water tank’s, position in the arena. > The fish were tasked to “drive” the FOV towards a visual target in the terrestrial environment, which was observable through the walls of the tank, and indeed were able to operate the vehicle, explore the new environment, and reach the target regardless of the starting point, all while avoiding dead-ends and correcting location inaccuracies. From fish out of water to new insights on navigation mechanisms in animals - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166432821005994?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01664...

trhway 1y ago

lets start working our beliefs up from easier places : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_0ImDYrPY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ_0ImDYrPY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7H2IDc-5QdQ https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7H2IDc-5QdQ

DougN7 1y ago

You’ll need to watch the video of the turtle. It was actively chasing a cat around, so it definitely knew what it was doing.

lioeters 1y ago
Tiny Turtle Follows Cat On a Skateboard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVbtAYPSapw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVbtAYPSapw