8 ms·

Crazy idea here. Why don’t we just have the best of both worlds? We want trains to operate more reliably, and be computer operated with just one or zero humans

• martin-t 1y ago
  That could even be a way to phase in UBI gradually.
• gruez 1y ago
  You're not taking into account two factors: union bosses don't like it because it means their fiefs shrink. Politicians/parties don't like it because it denies them a captive voting bloc. They'd actually have to do stuff like walking the length of Manhattan to get elected, rather than securing the major voting blocs by making a few backroom deals with the top unions/business leaders.
  • TylerE 1y ago
    This is ridiculous conspiracy. A few thousand people in a city of millions is not a dominant voting bloc.
    • djankauskas 1y ago
      What matters is who votes in the Democratic primary, a pool that is usually much smaller than the total number of eligible voters.
      • LeifCarrotson 1y ago
        Do union members reliably vote in primary elections?
        • Ericson2314 1y ago
          Yes, and they canvas too. But Mandami just won despite the all the machine unions endorsing Cuomo, so the machine now looks a lot weaker. (Yes, the leftmost candidate had a lot less union support. Chew on that.)
      • throw0101d 1y ago
        > What matters is who votes in the Democratic primary, a pool that is usually much smaller than the total number of eligible voters. Most "blue-collar" / "working-class" voters lean GOP nowadays: * https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/gop-rapidly-becoming-blue-collar-party-here-s-what-means-n1258468 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/gop-rapidly-... * https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republ... Which is ironic given GOP policies are generally anti-worker. A lot of folks are voting due to their (perceived) grievances and not in their actual self interest.
    • deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    • lotsofpulp 1y ago
      Not at all. In local politics, government employee unions and their family members get their way many times because those are the people who show up to vote, including in the primaries. Especially the cops/firefighters.
    • IncreasePosts 1y ago
      Every other union head is sweating seeing that though
• pclmulqdq 1y ago
  If you don't hire anyone new, the MTA union gradually loses power. That's a big no-no in the eyes of the union. Make-work bills aren't about saving jobs, but about saving power.
  • idle_zealot 1y ago
    Alright, then add station attendant jobs. People complain about the MTA feeling unsafe, have some guys dressed up in train uniforms hang around the station, able to answer questions or deescalate any commotion.
    • tekla 1y ago
      They do that already. Everyone knows they have no power, so nobody cares.
    • emchammer 1y ago
      The old guard station attendants were so good. Ask them for ANY destination and they would know it cold. MTA should be adding jobs, not removing them.
• jordanb 1y ago
  Whenever I take the train at night I always sit in the front car because that's where the operator is and it's safer. Having trains with no MTA emlpoyees at all is not a way to have a safe and reliable transit system.
  • franciscop 1y ago
    How do other cities around the world make this work and make it safe then?
    • DanHulton 1y ago
      Well, typically, they start with safer cities, something that's out of the purview if the MTA.
      • franciscop 1y ago
        That totally flew over my head, sorry! Violence in the train didn't even occur to me while reading the comment, I thought they meant something on the lines of "the driver will have better visibility when opening/closing the doors on the front train so it's safer to go there so they cannot accidentally close them on me" or something similar. Now of course they meant there's less chance of violent behavior near the train driver, and the comment makes a lot more sense for me now. Note: I do take the train daily, just I live in Tokyo
        • Ericson2314 1y ago
          American cities are less safe, but the NYC subway is quite safe. Train operators will never leave their cabin no matter what (part of the rules of the job), and so do not enhance the safety at all.
    • bigbacaloa 1y ago
      [dead]
    • hdgvhicv 1y ago
• yoz-y 1y ago
  I’d much rather see these people being employed at the service level. For example when automatic checkout machines came I thought “great, more people in the aisles that I can ask stuff”. Of course that never happened so now the reality is a queue of people waiting for a machine while three are blocked because nobody is there to help people.
  • hdgvhicv 1y ago
    When automated checkout machines came in I thought “great, now it’s shorter queues and I don’t have to talk to someone and interrupt my podcast” I was right. They are great.
    • yoz-y 1y ago
      There were shorter queues for a while. Now they aren’t. When they started most shops (I live in France) had both standard and automatic checkout. And about three people to deal with stuck machines (mostly scale issues, anti theft tag removal, and damaged barcodes). Now most smaller supermarkets only have the automatic queue and one person dealing with the trouble. This means that all people who really can’t use the automatic machines (kids, elderly, people doing large groceries) have to use them and the queue is constantly clogged. It was better for a little while, now it’s strictly worse.
    • const_cast 1y ago
      Yes, nothing is worse than being forced to say "hi, how are you". I mean, that's, like, 5 seconds out of my 24 hour day. That's unacceptable. For a long time I thought less socialization is better, because I can get things done faster. Turns out, no I can't, because actually I suck at most things. A teenager is faster at bagging than me. I suck at bagging, and that job pays 15 dollars an hour. And also, walking around everywhere with headphones on is no fun. It's just kind of... isolating and cold. All those tiny interactions add up to making you feel like a real person living a real life.
• onemoresoop 1y ago
  How about convert those jobs from train operators to bus operators and have more bus service from the same budget?
  • nine_k 1y ago
    Do they have the driver licenses good for driving a bus? I suppose it requires substantial training.
    • hdgvhicv 1y ago
      if you can already drive you can probably pass a bus driving course in a day or two.
      • Apreche 1y ago
        You are out of your mind. Driving a bus in NYC is one of the most difficult jobs imaginable. Maybe someone who drives a big tractor trailer would be more prepared to do it, but someone who has only driven average cars will need extensive training and practice before they can be entrusted with the lives of real passengers on the streets of NYC in all traffic and weather conditions. Not to mention, bus drivers have to do a lot more than just drive. It’s several jobs in one. Not only do they have to do the driving they also have to do customer service, fare collection, and deal with problematic passengers. All hail the mighty bus driver. In a just society they would swap salaries with the CEOs.
        • Ericson2314 1y ago
          We could still retrain people for this, but yes, it's not trivial. The problem for union negotiation is that it would be considered a demotion / harder job. This is why the best thing to do is just run more service while automating lines. And eventually build more network too.
        • rangestransform 1y ago
          Driving 40 foot buses on narrow NYC streets is entirely a self-own that even more stupid make-work buy america requirements contributed to
• Spooky23 1y ago
  How will they farm overtime and become disabled at home?
• anonymousiam 1y ago
  In a sense, you are arguing in favor of a Fifth Amendment "taking", because the company (or government) loses money by being forced to pay people to do nothing. No small business would tolerate being required to pay people to stay home, so why should taxpayers?
  • mulmen 1y ago
    Governments aren’t businesses.
• refurb 1y ago
  They could just change the drivers title to "Train attendants" like Vancouver does and their union will remain strong.
• bigbacaloa 1y ago
  [dead]
• renewiltord 1y ago
  That is a crazy idea, not because it's unique but because we already did that and "the definition of crazy is doing the same thing again and expecting a different result" (clearly idempotence was something the universe protected during this era of pithy saying making). And as usual HN has the teenage angst responses of "THEY don't want to give up THEIR power" and shit like that. Christ. Anyway, the dockworkers were already paid off in 1977 because containerization obviated most of their jobs. So the deal we gave them was "You get paid whether you work or not". The problem with paying people when they don't work is that they can then work and use their extra money to extort you even more. Which is exactly what they did this last year. That's right, half of the striking guys weren't guys who'd be working if there wasn't a strike. If you want to create various mobs that eat you alive while a bunch of useful idiots parrot some platitudes about unions, you should pay the unions even more money for less work. Kipling wrote a poem here that is illustrative for all these guys who think they have "one crazy idea that solves everything" that is always this same old idea. I shall give you two lines to meditate on: > once you have paid him the Danegeld > You never get rid of the Dane