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A lot of people join this profession because they like building stuff. They enjoy thinking about a problem and coming up with a solution and then implementing a

A lot of people join this profession because they like building stuff. They enjoy thinking about a problem and coming up with a solution and then implementing and testing it. Prompting is not the same thing and it doesn't scratch the same itch and at the end of the day it's important to enjoy your job, not only be efficient at it. I have heard the take that "writing code is not what makes you an engineer, solving problems and providing value is what makes you an engineer" and while that's cool and all and super important for advancing in your career and delivering results, I very much also like writing code. So there's that.

closewith 1y ago
Most people don't enjoy their jobs and go to work for one reason only - to support themselves and their families. The itch is to get paid. This is as true in software as it is in other fields. That's not to say there aren't vocations, or people in software who feel the way you do, but it's a tiny minority.
theferret 1y ago
That's an interesting take - that you like the act of writing code. I think a lot of builders across a variety of areas feel this way. I like writing code too. I've been experimenting with a toolchain in which I speak to text to agents, navigate the files with vim and autocomplete, and have Grok think through some math for me. It's pretty fun. I wonder if that will change to tuning agents to write code that go through that process in a semi-supervised manner will be fun? I don't know, but I'm open to the idea that as we progress I will find toolchains that bring me into flow as I build.
SoftTalker 1y ago
Rick Beato posted a video recently where he created a fictitious artist and a couple of songs based on a few prompts. The results were somewhat passable, generic indie/pop music but as he said (I'm paraphrasing) "I didn't create anything here. I prompted a computer to put together a bunch of words and melodies that it knew from what other people had written."
johannes1234321 1y ago
There is code which is interesting to write, even if it isn't the area with clever algorithms or big architecture decisions or something. But there is also the area of boilerplate, where non-LLM-AI-based IDEs for a few decades already help a lot with templates and "smart" completion. Current AI systems widen that area. The trouble with AI is when you are reaching the boundary of its capabilities. The trivial stuff it does well. For the complex stuff it fails spectacularly. In the in between you got to review carefully, which easily becomes less fun than simply writing by oneself.
- ModernMech 1y ago
  > But there is also the area of boilerplate, where non-LLM-AI-based IDEs for a few decades already help a lot with templates and "smart" completion. The thing for me is that AI writing the boilerplate feels like the brute force solution, compared to investing in better language and tooling design that may obviate the need for such boilerplate in the first place.
  - johannes1234321 1y ago
    Yeah, but building tooling is a hard sell considering the ability of contemporary AI. The energy cost is absurdly high for the result, but in current economics, where it's paid by investors not users, it's hidden. Will be interesting to see when AI companies got to the level where they have to make profits and how much optimisation there is to come ...
mnky9800n 1y ago
Yeah but I write the code that is interesting to solve and let the LLM solve the problems that are not so important. Like making yet another webscraper tool is not the most exciting part of the process when you are trying to make some kind of real time inference tool for what people post on the internet.
fragmede 1y ago
Ah yes, that "is that 6 spaces or 8" in a yaml file itch that just has to be scratched. Programming has a lot of doldrums. LLMs still get stuck at places, and that's just where the new itch to scratch is. Yeah, it's not the same as code golfing an algorithm really neatly into a few lines of really expressive C++, but things change and life goes on. Programming isn't the same as when it was on punch cards either.

closewith 1y ago

Most people don't enjoy their jobs and go to work for one reason only - to support themselves and their families. The itch is to get paid. This is as true in software as it is in other fields. That's not to say there aren't vocations, or people in software who feel the way you do, but it's a tiny minority.

theferret 1y ago

That's an interesting take - that you like the act of writing code. I think a lot of builders across a variety of areas feel this way. I like writing code too. I've been experimenting with a toolchain in which I speak to text to agents, navigate the files with vim and autocomplete, and have Grok think through some math for me. It's pretty fun. I wonder if that will change to tuning agents to write code that go through that process in a semi-supervised manner will be fun? I don't know, but I'm open to the idea that as we progress I will find toolchains that bring me into flow as I build.

SoftTalker 1y ago

Rick Beato posted a video recently where he created a fictitious artist and a couple of songs based on a few prompts. The results were somewhat passable, generic indie/pop music but as he said (I'm paraphrasing) "I didn't create anything here. I prompted a computer to put together a bunch of words and melodies that it knew from what other people had written."

johannes1234321 1y ago

There is code which is interesting to write, even if it isn't the area with clever algorithms or big architecture decisions or something. But there is also the area of boilerplate, where non-LLM-AI-based IDEs for a few decades already help a lot with templates and "smart" completion. Current AI systems widen that area. The trouble with AI is when you are reaching the boundary of its capabilities. The trivial stuff it does well. For the complex stuff it fails spectacularly. In the in between you got to review carefully, which easily becomes less fun than simply writing by oneself.

ModernMech 1y ago
> But there is also the area of boilerplate, where non-LLM-AI-based IDEs for a few decades already help a lot with templates and "smart" completion. The thing for me is that AI writing the boilerplate feels like the brute force solution, compared to investing in better language and tooling design that may obviate the need for such boilerplate in the first place.
- johannes1234321 1y ago
  Yeah, but building tooling is a hard sell considering the ability of contemporary AI. The energy cost is absurdly high for the result, but in current economics, where it's paid by investors not users, it's hidden. Will be interesting to see when AI companies got to the level where they have to make profits and how much optimisation there is to come ...

mnky9800n 1y ago

Yeah but I write the code that is interesting to solve and let the LLM solve the problems that are not so important. Like making yet another webscraper tool is not the most exciting part of the process when you are trying to make some kind of real time inference tool for what people post on the internet.

fragmede 1y ago

Ah yes, that "is that 6 spaces or 8" in a yaml file itch that just has to be scratched. Programming has a lot of doldrums. LLMs still get stuck at places, and that's just where the new itch to scratch is. Yeah, it's not the same as code golfing an algorithm really neatly into a few lines of really expressive C++, but things change and life goes on. Programming isn't the same as when it was on punch cards either.