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The people who care signed their names[1]. It's not a secret or anything. Most of the signatories are associated with Australian anti sex trafficking and explo

The people who care signed their names[1]. It's not a secret or anything. Most of the signatories are associated with Australian anti sex trafficking and exploitation groups, although there are several UK signatories and a couple Americans. A publication[2] by one of the signatories connects the dots. It's driven by the core idea: "Pornography Use Shapes and Changes Sexual Tastes"[3] which is supported by "In a survey of men involved in online sexual activities, 47% reported being involved in practice or seeing pornography which previously was not interesting to or even disgusted them."[4] I'm trying to steelman when I say I believe that the authors would agree that this also applies to games with sexual content. To address your comment specifically, while I see the appeal of consistent moral framework. I personally believe that moral frameworks trade consistency for completeness and rarely accomplish either. You have to assume the value-perspective of the other in order to understand why consistency might take a back seat to some other value we could only speculate on. 1. https://www.collectiveshout.org/open-letter-to-payment-processors https://www.collectiveshout.org/open-letter-to-payment-proce... 2. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/391732869_Not_A_Fantasy_How_the_Pornography_Industry_Exploits_Image-based_Sexual_Abuse_in_Real_Life#pf14 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/391732869_Not_A_Fan... 3. ibid. pg 30 4. ibid

mango7283 1y ago
It really should be obvious that the natural objection to "if they banned this then why not X" is "they haven't gotten around to it yet" and that the reason they can be more successful is also that they have put their money where their mouth is and also named themselves, something a counter petition will probably struggle with.
- kelseyfrog 1y ago
  Trying to connect the dots here. GP mentioned also banning true-crime podcasts and you comment to that was "they haven't gotten around to it yet"? How defensible do you feel this position is?
  - mango7283 1y ago
    1) Why haven't they banned porn game X when they banned porn game Y? -> it's just a matter of time, they've already established that they can pressure to get game x banned, they'll get to game y eventually - also, note that it should be obvious it's much easier to rally support to ban "niche incest/non-con game X" than to rally support to ban "borderline mainstream harem game Y". This is what I was referring to specifically. 2) Why haven't they banned all porn games then they banned porn game X? -> it takes a lot more effort to move the needle here. It's not for lack of trying or lack of will, it's that it's obviously much harder to get traction when you've expanded now to an entire category that includes borderline mainstream titles that will finally get defenders willing to put in the same effort as them. 3) Why haven't they banned GTA when they've banned porn game X? -> First, they've tried!. 2nd, again, same principle -> activists aren't stupid, they know they can win the battle one game at a time, and that they can't win it in one gigantic decisive swoop (conveniently enough though, you can leverage this as well to ensure you have a nice long runway to continue to do your activism and keep it as a wedge issue to push at for a nice long time) 4) Why not ban true crime podcasts when they've banned porn game X? -> see again, look, many. many people listen to true crime podcasts, and many people have also objected to them as exploitative. but why does porn game x get banned and true crime podcast Z not? because, well, duh, again, the amount of effort needed to move the needle on something many people enjoy is that much more! i don't think they don't want to, mind you, but again, it's going to take a lot more effort to get to true crime podcasts when they have a thousand other porn game XYZ's they can to work on And lets not pretend people aren't also trying to get books banned, again, it's being done at a more selective pace, book by book, not category by category. Why is <random niche hentai> banned and not <50 shades of grey>? well, who is published by a mainstream big publishier and who is published by a niche publisher that doesn;t want to get the whole hammer on them? Repeat at nauseam.
    - kelseyfrog 1y ago
      How do you think activism should work?
      - mango7283 1y ago
hulitu 1y ago
> 47% reported being involved in practice or seeing pornography which previously was not interesting to or even disgusted them Yeah, right.
- kelseyfrog 1y ago
  The source[1] for the statistic is referenced. Was there a particular part of it that you found incorrect? 1. https://www.academia.edu/27521992/Online_sexual_activities_An_exploratory_study_of_problematic_and_non_problematic_usage_patterns_in_a_sample_of_men https://www.academia.edu/27521992/Online_sexual_activities_A...

mango7283 1y ago

It really should be obvious that the natural objection to "if they banned this then why not X" is "they haven't gotten around to it yet" and that the reason they can be more successful is also that they have put their money where their mouth is and also named themselves, something a counter petition will probably struggle with.

kelseyfrog 1y ago
Trying to connect the dots here. GP mentioned also banning true-crime podcasts and you comment to that was "they haven't gotten around to it yet"? How defensible do you feel this position is?
- mango7283 1y ago
  1) Why haven't they banned porn game X when they banned porn game Y? -> it's just a matter of time, they've already established that they can pressure to get game x banned, they'll get to game y eventually - also, note that it should be obvious it's much easier to rally support to ban "niche incest/non-con game X" than to rally support to ban "borderline mainstream harem game Y". This is what I was referring to specifically. 2) Why haven't they banned all porn games then they banned porn game X? -> it takes a lot more effort to move the needle here. It's not for lack of trying or lack of will, it's that it's obviously much harder to get traction when you've expanded now to an entire category that includes borderline mainstream titles that will finally get defenders willing to put in the same effort as them. 3) Why haven't they banned GTA when they've banned porn game X? -> First, they've tried!. 2nd, again, same principle -> activists aren't stupid, they know they can win the battle one game at a time, and that they can't win it in one gigantic decisive swoop (conveniently enough though, you can leverage this as well to ensure you have a nice long runway to continue to do your activism and keep it as a wedge issue to push at for a nice long time) 4) Why not ban true crime podcasts when they've banned porn game X? -> see again, look, many. many people listen to true crime podcasts, and many people have also objected to them as exploitative. but why does porn game x get banned and true crime podcast Z not? because, well, duh, again, the amount of effort needed to move the needle on something many people enjoy is that much more! i don't think they don't want to, mind you, but again, it's going to take a lot more effort to get to true crime podcasts when they have a thousand other porn game XYZ's they can to work on And lets not pretend people aren't also trying to get books banned, again, it's being done at a more selective pace, book by book, not category by category. Why is <random niche hentai> banned and not <50 shades of grey>? well, who is published by a mainstream big publishier and who is published by a niche publisher that doesn;t want to get the whole hammer on them? Repeat at nauseam.
  - kelseyfrog 1y ago
    How do you think activism should work?
    - mango7283 1y ago

hulitu 1y ago

> 47% reported being involved in practice or seeing pornography which previously was not interesting to or even disgusted them Yeah, right.

kelseyfrog 1y ago
The source[1] for the statistic is referenced. Was there a particular part of it that you found incorrect? 1. https://www.academia.edu/27521992/Online_sexual_activities_An_exploratory_study_of_problematic_and_non_problematic_usage_patterns_in_a_sample_of_men https://www.academia.edu/27521992/Online_sexual_activities_A...