3 ms·

You don't need to be "mean" to make clear that a PR is fundamentally flawed. You can literally say, "the entire approach here is unacceptable, and we won't merg

You don't need to be "mean" to make clear that a PR is fundamentally flawed. You can literally say, "the entire approach here is unacceptable, and we won't merge it or anything like it." No profanity, no personal insults, not even picking at ancillary details, just facts.

deleted 1y ago
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overgard 1y ago
I think there's a lot of people that would find saying "the entire approach here is unacceptable" to be "mean" though. But I generally agree with your point of not making it a personal insult.
linusforthewin 1y ago
There are different management techniques. Some focus purely on the thalamus and some engage the amygdala. For example, maybe you work as a program coordinator in a liberal arts college, then you may target the thalamus- the center of logical reasoning. You explain to professors how the program you’re responsible for will advance some goal that seems logical though no one feels emotional about it. Or maybe you’re a drill sergeant whose job it is to ensure that when soldiers are under duress in war, your barked commands and insults will be burned into their amygdala, their emotion center that handles fight or flight immediate responses and related fast and deep emotional memories, so that they will respond as trained instead of forgetting everything that was learned and running away, because that may not be as effective. Logic doesn’t play into decisions under duress. Linus may have later decided that hurting others was not as helpful, but he wasn’t being a bad leader when he did and said what he felt he needed to at the time. Sometimes it takes a little tough love to make things happen. Even Jesus had to overturn some tables.
anal_reactor 1y ago
I have learned that number one rule of working in a corporation is "do not offend people". You can explain away a major delay. You can explain away an incident. You can explain away a project not being delivered at all. You can explain away all and any failure, but if you offend someone, you have a big problem. People's egos are extremely fragile, and it makes zero sense to risk even tiniest chance of conflict, unless your very job is at stake. Seeing someone value a serious project higher than random guy's personal feelings is extremely refreshing. > But you don't need to be mean You don't need to be nice either
- andrewflnr 1y ago
  > You don't need to be nice either. ...right, mostly. Being nice is nice, but the truth is more important. A corporation that could figure that out would run far better.
  - _nalply 1y ago
    Maybe. Maybe not. Given the human material (yes I know a dehumanizing formulation, but that's what Corporate does) it seems it's better not to step on anybody's toes except if it's abundantly clear that the person doesn't have a voice in things, but even then it's risky. Corporate is self-selecting: companies that don't generate profit die off sooner or later. Therefore we can conclude (if a bit shakily) from the norm in Corporate not to insult anybody that internal strife has been very damaging and therefore that Corporate self-selects in an evolutionary manner to avoid anything that leads to internal strife.
    - andrewflnr 1y ago
      That's giving evolution far too much credit. The same logic would tell you the appendix has some secret critical function.
      - _alternator_ 1y ago
        It does. The appendix is probably a reservoir for repopulating your microbiome with a “backup copy” after particularly nasty stomach bugs. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12128343/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12128343/
        andrewflnr 1y ago
        I know. I said critical function for a reason. If you can remove it, it's not critical. The point is, "but evolution" is a weak argument to justify any particular feature of an entity facing selection pressure. The laryngeal nerve detour would have been a better example but I wanted to stay accessible.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

overgard 1y ago

I think there's a lot of people that would find saying "the entire approach here is unacceptable" to be "mean" though. But I generally agree with your point of not making it a personal insult.

linusforthewin 1y ago

There are different management techniques. Some focus purely on the thalamus and some engage the amygdala. For example, maybe you work as a program coordinator in a liberal arts college, then you may target the thalamus- the center of logical reasoning. You explain to professors how the program you’re responsible for will advance some goal that seems logical though no one feels emotional about it. Or maybe you’re a drill sergeant whose job it is to ensure that when soldiers are under duress in war, your barked commands and insults will be burned into their amygdala, their emotion center that handles fight or flight immediate responses and related fast and deep emotional memories, so that they will respond as trained instead of forgetting everything that was learned and running away, because that may not be as effective. Logic doesn’t play into decisions under duress. Linus may have later decided that hurting others was not as helpful, but he wasn’t being a bad leader when he did and said what he felt he needed to at the time. Sometimes it takes a little tough love to make things happen. Even Jesus had to overturn some tables.

anal_reactor 1y ago

I have learned that number one rule of working in a corporation is "do not offend people". You can explain away a major delay. You can explain away an incident. You can explain away a project not being delivered at all. You can explain away all and any failure, but if you offend someone, you have a big problem. People's egos are extremely fragile, and it makes zero sense to risk even tiniest chance of conflict, unless your very job is at stake. Seeing someone value a serious project higher than random guy's personal feelings is extremely refreshing. > But you don't need to be mean You don't need to be nice either

andrewflnr 1y ago
> You don't need to be nice either. ...right, mostly. Being nice is nice, but the truth is more important. A corporation that could figure that out would run far better.
- _nalply 1y ago
  Maybe. Maybe not. Given the human material (yes I know a dehumanizing formulation, but that's what Corporate does) it seems it's better not to step on anybody's toes except if it's abundantly clear that the person doesn't have a voice in things, but even then it's risky. Corporate is self-selecting: companies that don't generate profit die off sooner or later. Therefore we can conclude (if a bit shakily) from the norm in Corporate not to insult anybody that internal strife has been very damaging and therefore that Corporate self-selects in an evolutionary manner to avoid anything that leads to internal strife.
  - andrewflnr 1y ago
    That's giving evolution far too much credit. The same logic would tell you the appendix has some secret critical function.
    - _alternator_ 1y ago
      It does. The appendix is probably a reservoir for repopulating your microbiome with a “backup copy” after particularly nasty stomach bugs. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12128343/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12128343/
      - andrewflnr 1y ago
        I know. I said critical function for a reason. If you can remove it, it's not critical. The point is, "but evolution" is a weak argument to justify any particular feature of an entity facing selection pressure. The laryngeal nerve detour would have been a better example but I wanted to stay accessible.