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Not to beat on frontend but I vaguely remember that the UI was rebuilt with React a couple of years back and the other day while browsing a sale, specifically h

Not to beat on frontend but I vaguely remember that the UI was rebuilt with React a couple of years back and the other day while browsing a sale, specifically hovering over Final Fantasy XIII would crash an entire sales widget, printing out a React error. I wonder if this is just a case of framework bloat getting out of hand (again)

OsrsNeedsf2P 1y ago
People give React far too much credit. Source: I've had the privilege to ask questions to some of the engineers on that team...
Fogest 1y ago
It could be, or maybe poorly optimized assets? I always have such a problem loading the pictures and videos associated with each game. I've used other sites that are fully React based that run quite well and don't have these issues. So I can't imagine it is specifically the frameworks fault. But I do find if developers use these big frameworks and don't use them properly, the slowdowns can be much more pronounced.
ASalazarMX 1y ago
The new Steam UI was incredibly bloated at the start, it was frequent (in my experience) for it to force close because it wouldn't fit in RAM along with the active game. It got better, but I'm still not loving it. Maybe I'm prejudiced to React and its variants, because I have never used a React app I liked, just React apps that are useful despite their shortcomings.
- dangus 1y ago
  React is so wildly popular that you probably have a bunch of websites and apps you like that use it but because it’s so wildly popular there are also extensive examples of poorly made applications.
  - jauntywundrkind 1y ago
    Ding ding ding! It's possible (easy) to make terrible software in any framework/system. The popular systems are almost certainly going to have the most offenders, the worst offenses. (It makes me nuts but) I seriously think the web is basically the greatest. And we have some pretty good tools for doing pretty good, that we can use, if we try hard. But also, the whole middle-tier data-architecture is made up by almost everyone, with little guidance; there's incredibly little guidance & views of how we effectively get data to the client and cache & update it effectively. The tools and tech exist, but instead of clear industrial practices everyone's stringing shit together.
    - dangus 1y ago
      I also think that stringing shit together is often very much okay. Your user or customer wants their problem solved or their desirable experience delivered. They often don’t care if there are bugs or jank or slowness as long as they get what they want.
      - Kinrany 1y ago
        Customers almost always want to not deal with bugs, jank and slowness. It wastes time and attention, which is much worse than wasting compute. Minor issues are usually tolerable, especially when there aren't any alternatives. That doesn't mean there's no cost.
        dangus 1y ago
        I agree, but it’s usually not an “all else equal” situation when it comes to alternative products. Customers would rather play a buggy/janky game like the Elder Scrolls series, Minecraft (especially early in its lifespan, not really so much anymore), or Ark (the dinosaur game) than play a polished bug-free game with boring gameplay. Or as another example, customers would rather deal with the ugly UI and slow UI performance of Autodesk Fusion than use a more polished/native feeling application that isn’t as powerful for design work.

OsrsNeedsf2P 1y ago

People give React far too much credit. Source: I've had the privilege to ask questions to some of the engineers on that team...

Fogest 1y ago

It could be, or maybe poorly optimized assets? I always have such a problem loading the pictures and videos associated with each game. I've used other sites that are fully React based that run quite well and don't have these issues. So I can't imagine it is specifically the frameworks fault. But I do find if developers use these big frameworks and don't use them properly, the slowdowns can be much more pronounced.

ASalazarMX 1y ago

The new Steam UI was incredibly bloated at the start, it was frequent (in my experience) for it to force close because it wouldn't fit in RAM along with the active game. It got better, but I'm still not loving it. Maybe I'm prejudiced to React and its variants, because I have never used a React app I liked, just React apps that are useful despite their shortcomings.

dangus 1y ago
React is so wildly popular that you probably have a bunch of websites and apps you like that use it but because it’s so wildly popular there are also extensive examples of poorly made applications.
- jauntywundrkind 1y ago
  Ding ding ding! It's possible (easy) to make terrible software in any framework/system. The popular systems are almost certainly going to have the most offenders, the worst offenses. (It makes me nuts but) I seriously think the web is basically the greatest. And we have some pretty good tools for doing pretty good, that we can use, if we try hard. But also, the whole middle-tier data-architecture is made up by almost everyone, with little guidance; there's incredibly little guidance & views of how we effectively get data to the client and cache & update it effectively. The tools and tech exist, but instead of clear industrial practices everyone's stringing shit together.
  - dangus 1y ago
    I also think that stringing shit together is often very much okay. Your user or customer wants their problem solved or their desirable experience delivered. They often don’t care if there are bugs or jank or slowness as long as they get what they want.
    - Kinrany 1y ago
      Customers almost always want to not deal with bugs, jank and slowness. It wastes time and attention, which is much worse than wasting compute. Minor issues are usually tolerable, especially when there aren't any alternatives. That doesn't mean there's no cost.
      - dangus 1y ago
        I agree, but it’s usually not an “all else equal” situation when it comes to alternative products. Customers would rather play a buggy/janky game like the Elder Scrolls series, Minecraft (especially early in its lifespan, not really so much anymore), or Ark (the dinosaur game) than play a polished bug-free game with boring gameplay. Or as another example, customers would rather deal with the ugly UI and slow UI performance of Autodesk Fusion than use a more polished/native feeling application that isn’t as powerful for design work.