4 ms·

> Isn't it enough that they're printing money with this device and the biggest tech company in the world? They are last I checked the biggest company in histor

by luriel 14y ago

> Isn't it enough that they're printing money with this device and the biggest tech company in the world? They are last I checked the biggest company in history. But apparently that is not enough reward for their efforts, they need the government to grant them a monopoly on some of the most ridiculously obvious ideas of the last 20 years.

ajross 14y ago
This was hashed out over the last few weeks when they passed the record. They are the biggest in nominal ("dollar") value. The Microsoft of the 90's and IBM of the 80's were larger in inflation-adjusted market cap. And my understanding is that the US trusts of the 1920's were much larger in terms of value as fraction of GDP. But they're undeniably the biggest, most successful tech company on the planet right now. I think that's enough.
- crag 14y ago
  And lets not forgot Standard Oil of the early 20th century. Standard Oil was so big it's revenue (including all the subsidiaries and holdings) almost topped the value of the whole country. Apple is far from that goal. Apple might be the biggest company by market cap today but they're a pale comparison to the likes of Standard Oil or US Steel (in their prime). Also, Apple doesn't have a monopoly is anything unlike (Standard Oil and US Steel). I wish most of you would stop trying to convince us all they do. We've been down this road before. And it seems to happen every generation - some company gets very rich. And everyone starts screaming about unfair practices and monopolies. Apple plays the patent game well. So does Google, MS, Samsung, IBM, Oracle, all the drug companies - and everybody else. So what's new?
  - ajross 14y ago
    Right. Everyone is screaming about unfair practices and monopolies because unfair practices and monopolies hurt the market. You honestly don't think MS hurt adoption of otherwise-good platforms in the 90's? There are a bunch of South Korean teenagers who probably wish you physical violence for holding that opinion.
    - sbuk 14y ago
      You can't accuse people of using strawmen then proffer one yourself.
      - ajross 14y ago
        I'm reading back and forth between crag's reply and mine looking for a straw man and can't find one. Enlighten me? He strongly implied (it seems clear to me, though maybe you thought he was saying something else?) that the status quo was not a problem because it had happened before. I replied that it was a problem, had happened, and gave an example. Simply inferring an argument is not making a straw man.
        Retric 14y ago
        The current system enables Apple to be the largest company in the world, in other systems other companies end up winning. So you don't get to assume the same companies win win after significant patent reform. PS: Plenty of large companies have overthrown governments and enabled atrocities on a massive scale. Sure, someone always wins but it's hard to point to a company as benign as Microsoft or Apple and assume something must be horribly broken. Honestly, after comparing the Apple ecosystem with Android Apple is far better for developers than the more 'open' platform. Ditto for Microsoft, they had their time in the sun and 'hurt' their rivals, but compared to say standard Oil, US steel, or the East India Company there practically a charity.
  - Tycho 14y ago
    Or the Dutch East-India Company, which had it's own army and navy...

by luriel 14y ago

ajross 14y ago

This was hashed out over the last few weeks when they passed the record. They are the biggest in nominal ("dollar") value. The Microsoft of the 90's and IBM of the 80's were larger in inflation-adjusted market cap. And my understanding is that the US trusts of the 1920's were much larger in terms of value as fraction of GDP. But they're undeniably the biggest, most successful tech company on the planet right now. I think that's enough.

crag 14y ago
And lets not forgot Standard Oil of the early 20th century. Standard Oil was so big it's revenue (including all the subsidiaries and holdings) almost topped the value of the whole country. Apple is far from that goal. Apple might be the biggest company by market cap today but they're a pale comparison to the likes of Standard Oil or US Steel (in their prime). Also, Apple doesn't have a monopoly is anything unlike (Standard Oil and US Steel). I wish most of you would stop trying to convince us all they do. We've been down this road before. And it seems to happen every generation - some company gets very rich. And everyone starts screaming about unfair practices and monopolies. Apple plays the patent game well. So does Google, MS, Samsung, IBM, Oracle, all the drug companies - and everybody else. So what's new?
- ajross 14y ago
  Right. Everyone is screaming about unfair practices and monopolies because unfair practices and monopolies hurt the market. You honestly don't think MS hurt adoption of otherwise-good platforms in the 90's? There are a bunch of South Korean teenagers who probably wish you physical violence for holding that opinion.
  - sbuk 14y ago
    You can't accuse people of using strawmen then proffer one yourself.
    - ajross 14y ago
      I'm reading back and forth between crag's reply and mine looking for a straw man and can't find one. Enlighten me? He strongly implied (it seems clear to me, though maybe you thought he was saying something else?) that the status quo was not a problem because it had happened before. I replied that it was a problem, had happened, and gave an example. Simply inferring an argument is not making a straw man.
      - Retric 14y ago
        The current system enables Apple to be the largest company in the world, in other systems other companies end up winning. So you don't get to assume the same companies win win after significant patent reform. PS: Plenty of large companies have overthrown governments and enabled atrocities on a massive scale. Sure, someone always wins but it's hard to point to a company as benign as Microsoft or Apple and assume something must be horribly broken. Honestly, after comparing the Apple ecosystem with Android Apple is far better for developers than the more 'open' platform. Ditto for Microsoft, they had their time in the sun and 'hurt' their rivals, but compared to say standard Oil, US steel, or the East India Company there practically a charity.
- Tycho 14y ago
  Or the Dutch East-India Company, which had it's own army and navy...