3 ms·

Legally speaking, if you enter the country without entering through a port of entry? That is actually ILLEGAL. Therefore, its not a stretch to use the word "ILL

Legally speaking, if you enter the country without entering through a port of entry? That is actually ILLEGAL. Therefore, its not a stretch to use the word "ILLEGAL ALIEN". Just for reference: 8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

saubeidl 1y ago
It is not the human that is illegal, just because their entry into the country was. Words matter. Specificity matters. Dehumanizing propaganda matters.
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  An illegal alien is a title / designation. Just like an illegal vendor, unregulated industry, or ineligible participant. Person first language is a good thing, but only recent political events have taken up the "No person is illegal" wordsmithing.
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    By moving the designator illegal from the activity to the person, you are criminalizing their being instead of their deed. It is a way of dehumanizing people.
    - jvanderbot 1y ago
      Yes, I understand what you mean. And I tend to agree. I'm just making space for intent, and as much as words matter, intent also matters. A person who entered the country illegally is not incorrectly (even if roughly) abbreviated as an "illegal alien", since alien is a designation for "person of a foreign country" in this case. It's true this can be misused, but it's also true I don't think OP misused it or intended to, and even if it could be interpreted as a rough slight, I'd prefer we took the charitable stance, evaluated intent in context, and stayed out of semantics and focused on the issue (in this case whether such individuals receive funded health care benefits). That's really it. If you disagree and think this was the time to call that out, that's ok, I just disagree and don't have anything more to say on it. Cheers.
- xdennis 1y ago
  Everybody knows that illegal migrant means an migrant who is illegal present in the country. You're only trying to say that it means "his humanity is against the law" to stigmatize people who care about law enforcement. If the term "illegal migrant" offends them then that's a good thing, because you should be ashamed when you break the law. When you call an illegal a "undocumented migrant" you're essentially downplaying the illegality of the act. It's just as bad as calling a rapist an "undocumented lover". You're de-stigmatizing breaking the law.
  - ktallett 1y ago
    The law in this case is against the point of humans. We are an explorative species that should not be constricted by luck of birthplace.

saubeidl 1y ago

It is not the human that is illegal, just because their entry into the country was. Words matter. Specificity matters. Dehumanizing propaganda matters.

jvanderbot 1y ago
An illegal alien is a title / designation. Just like an illegal vendor, unregulated industry, or ineligible participant. Person first language is a good thing, but only recent political events have taken up the "No person is illegal" wordsmithing.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  By moving the designator illegal from the activity to the person, you are criminalizing their being instead of their deed. It is a way of dehumanizing people.
  - jvanderbot 1y ago
    Yes, I understand what you mean. And I tend to agree. I'm just making space for intent, and as much as words matter, intent also matters. A person who entered the country illegally is not incorrectly (even if roughly) abbreviated as an "illegal alien", since alien is a designation for "person of a foreign country" in this case. It's true this can be misused, but it's also true I don't think OP misused it or intended to, and even if it could be interpreted as a rough slight, I'd prefer we took the charitable stance, evaluated intent in context, and stayed out of semantics and focused on the issue (in this case whether such individuals receive funded health care benefits). That's really it. If you disagree and think this was the time to call that out, that's ok, I just disagree and don't have anything more to say on it. Cheers.
xdennis 1y ago
Everybody knows that illegal migrant means an migrant who is illegal present in the country. You're only trying to say that it means "his humanity is against the law" to stigmatize people who care about law enforcement. If the term "illegal migrant" offends them then that's a good thing, because you should be ashamed when you break the law. When you call an illegal a "undocumented migrant" you're essentially downplaying the illegality of the act. It's just as bad as calling a rapist an "undocumented lover". You're de-stigmatizing breaking the law.
- ktallett 1y ago
  The law in this case is against the point of humans. We are an explorative species that should not be constricted by luck of birthplace.