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I’ve never understood why America doesn’t have a decent health care system. And then America voted for Trump, and everyone appears shocked at what he has done…

I’ve never understood why America doesn’t have a decent health care system. And then America voted for Trump, and everyone appears shocked at what he has done… There is something very wrong with American attitudes.

fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
Depends where you look, but most of his voters don't know and/or don't care. I think the only thing he's done to rile them up so far this term is his recent comments on the Epstein case.
- RajT88 1y ago
  The right wing media ecosystem they have created obscures the fact that Obamacare is the thing these people are using. Then, once it fails, they will just lie and again blame Democrats for it instead of circling back to their talking points about how they wanted to kill Obamacare. This is just some people. I have met a fair number of people who just think it is too bad, so sad if you are too poor or do not have a good enough job for good healthcare. I was visiting Canada once, and the folks at the company I was visiting recounted the last American who rolled through who espoused the "well, I guess they die" talking points - to their horror.
  - DennisP 1y ago
    If rates go way up next year, I don't see how they're going to convince people the Democrats are at fault.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      Stock market goes up: Trump economy! Stock market goes down: Biden left us a shitty economy! Same will happen here.
      - DennisP 1y ago
        Of course they'll say it. I just doubt that many people will believe it.
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        The last decade doesn't give me much doubt about that. We're talking about folks who non-ironically walk around with signs saying "keep government out of my medicare". https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/medicare-recipients-against-handouts/ https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0... > 44 percent of Social Security recipients, and 40 percent of Medicare recipients, believe that they don’t benefit from any government social program.
        DennisP 1y ago
        That's sad, but check recent polls in Trump's approval rating for various issues. He's underwater and trending down, pretty much across the board. https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker
        fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
        He's deeply underwater on the Epstein issue too, really botched that one
        Tadpole9181 1y ago
        Well their supporters are, quite frankly, unrepentant morons that have believed literally anything broadcast on their absolutely enormous propaganda machine for two decades. I'm not exactly holding my breath that they'll suddenly grow a brain to connect cause and effect against the word of Dear Supreme God King.
        spauldo 1y ago
        Spend a bit of time talking with tradesmen and you'll change your mind on that. These people aren't stupid - far from it! I work with electricians all day and they're sharp as tacks. But most of 'em have been lied to so long they buy it all, hook, line, and sinker. Quite a few of them get drawn in by the social conservative outlook and then just go along with the rest of it.
- RhysabOweyn 1y ago
  There has been an explosion of enrollments from red states in recent years, getting hit with a massive increase in monthly expenses will probably not go down so well: https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/where-aca-marketplace-enrollment-is-growing-the-fastest-and-why/ https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/where-aca-marketplace-enrol...
  - fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
    I don't think they'll enjoy a price increase, but I also don't have confidence that the average Trump voter will blame him for it. Most of them are already distrustful of government and this will just validate that. Of course Obamacare failed, Trump was right all along, it failed because too many illegals, etc.
newsclues 1y ago
Because it’s a very profitable industry
almost_usual 1y ago
Hard to pay for a health care system when the population is incentivized to live absolute unhealthy lives. Encourage not sleeping, advertise and manufacture processed garbage, encourage drinking poison, and most of all encourage working long hours over getting any physical activity. Yeah, good luck with that. It’s an every man for themselves environment, the government and American society is fine with throwing your body into the meat grinder for more profit. Ironically we’d be much more productive if we incentivized a healthier lifestyle for the population.
tenacious_tuna 1y ago
I don't think we (Americans) have a solid understanding of political cause and effect. You see this in low turnout for local/state elections (vs federal), and just a lack of understanding of how the various political mechanics work. My mother is an elementary school teacher in a conservative Michigan town. She generally doesn't talk politics at work, but a coworker mentioned that the school's "no questions asked" free breakfast and lunch policy was ending next year due to federal education cuts. My mom's co-teacher, who voted for Trump, expressed surprise, saying she didn't realize that was something likely to be cut, or that the states would make up the shortfall. Anyone remotely following US politics wouldn't be surprised, and would know that most states are fairly strapped for cash. (Whether that's societally optimal is besides the point.) This is a pattern I see over and over again, on both sides of the line: you see Trump voters surprised that cuts to the FDA result in higher food recalls, and you see Democratic voters saying that nothing got done over the last four years. It baffles me. I have more awareness of the local politics in our small Canadian town than I did when I lived in Chicago, and it all just comes from listening to my friends talk about current events. It's a wild feeling.
- pjc50 1y ago
  There's a lot of media disinformation goes into keeping people that way. It's a weird scenario. American politics is so loud and omnipresent that I, as a Brit on the Internet, end up following it involuntarily because it ends up in every discussion everywhere. But so much of it is just weird things made up by right wing talking heads.
  - TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
    The US oligarchy runs the biggest propaganda operation in history. From think tanks that sell neoliberal policy narratives, to captured journalists in the MSM, to Fox News and its imitators, to podcasts, megachurches, conventional media content, carefully curated addictive social media algorithms, paid SM influencers, troll and bot farms, normalised work ethics and workplace dynamics, adtech and the ad industry, and "edgy" sites like nChan - it's all managed messaging. It's targeted across all US demographics. Sometimes covertly. And increasingly it's fine-tuned towards individual interests and psychological triggers.
bpt3 1y ago
America does have a decent healthcare system for the vast majority of its citizens (people with full time jobs and their dependents, plus the elderly). That's a large reason why there is no major change in this area, even though one is sorely needed. Personally, I'd just open Medicare up to anyone who wants it by paying some additional fee each month and see how that goes, but that's too simple for most politicians I think.
- getnormality 1y ago
  It's kind of amazing that majoritarian democracy is as good as it is at addressing problems experienced by small minorities. It is pretty bad, but it could be much worse.
  - vkou 1y ago
    It is incredibly good at addressing the problems experienced by the top 0.1 and 0.001%.
- delfinom 1y ago
  America's healthcare system is basically a house of cards. Yes for people with jobs and benefits, it works, for now. But so so so much is wrong financially for hospitals, clinics and pharmacies. This administration is poking the house of cards with a really large stick. Pharmacies are so fucked by PBMs( that politicians only pay lip service to dealing with) that they _owe_ money to the PBM everytime they fill many prescriptions. Negative reimbursements. Many small time pharmacies now play games to refuse prescriptions because of how bad it is. PBMs have tried to counter by having distributors write contracts that bar refusals. Chain pharmacies aren't doing much better and are where the negative reimbursement customers end up. "Mom & pop" doctor offices simply are going extinct. Due to both polticians lumping on requirements for digital records, infinite insurance games and cost of real estate going to the moon, every new doctor just joins a mega-hospital-network because they are already 2 million in debt after schooling. Old doctors just sell out their clinics to those hospital networks. Suddenly doctors that work there get put under strict quotas. This is something I've seen happen in real time in my suburban part of NY. My doctor's office that also fell under the growing blob of a mega-network, now has numerous signs saying "new concerns brought up during the appointment must be done under a new appointment for billing purposes".
gigatree 1y ago
Just like it is the case wrt Israel - it doesn’t matter who made it to office, the result was always going to be the same
- pfisch 1y ago
  The democrats obviously weren't going to destroy the ACA like this.
- spauldo 1y ago
  Israel is a special case. Obama made some "maybe we should consider what the Palestinians have to say" noises and you see the political blowback he got over it.
blibble 1y ago
working class USians continuously vote against their own interests https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1BBBblrK44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1BBBblrK44
righthand 1y ago
It is cool to be uneducated and to instead believe unchecked made up bs in the US, as long as said bs maintains the status quo. It is the saddest part of this country.
tlogan 1y ago
America arguably offers the best healthcare in the world. If you can afford it. The quality of care, technology, and expertise are top-tier for those with excellent insurance or deep pockets. But the system is neither free nor particularly efficient. For many, access is limited by cost, bureaucracy, and inequities. So yes, it is best care available, but not best care accessible.
- chris_wot 1y ago
  In other words: so what?
supertrope 1y ago
We are still waiting for our Otto Von Bismarck or William Beveridge. Each company and guild in the medical-industrial complex resists reform. They're fundamentally businesses that provide healthcare, not services for all Americans. Any attempt to rationalize the system is decried as "socialism."

fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago

Depends where you look, but most of his voters don't know and/or don't care. I think the only thing he's done to rile them up so far this term is his recent comments on the Epstein case.

RajT88 1y ago
The right wing media ecosystem they have created obscures the fact that Obamacare is the thing these people are using. Then, once it fails, they will just lie and again blame Democrats for it instead of circling back to their talking points about how they wanted to kill Obamacare. This is just some people. I have met a fair number of people who just think it is too bad, so sad if you are too poor or do not have a good enough job for good healthcare. I was visiting Canada once, and the folks at the company I was visiting recounted the last American who rolled through who espoused the "well, I guess they die" talking points - to their horror.
- DennisP 1y ago
  If rates go way up next year, I don't see how they're going to convince people the Democrats are at fault.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    Stock market goes up: Trump economy! Stock market goes down: Biden left us a shitty economy! Same will happen here.
    - DennisP 1y ago
      Of course they'll say it. I just doubt that many people will believe it.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        The last decade doesn't give me much doubt about that. We're talking about folks who non-ironically walk around with signs saying "keep government out of my medicare". https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/medicare-recipients-against-handouts/ https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0... > 44 percent of Social Security recipients, and 40 percent of Medicare recipients, believe that they don’t benefit from any government social program.
        DennisP 1y ago
        That's sad, but check recent polls in Trump's approval rating for various issues. He's underwater and trending down, pretty much across the board. https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker
        fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
        He's deeply underwater on the Epstein issue too, really botched that one
      - Tadpole9181 1y ago
        Well their supporters are, quite frankly, unrepentant morons that have believed literally anything broadcast on their absolutely enormous propaganda machine for two decades. I'm not exactly holding my breath that they'll suddenly grow a brain to connect cause and effect against the word of Dear Supreme God King.
      - spauldo 1y ago
        Spend a bit of time talking with tradesmen and you'll change your mind on that. These people aren't stupid - far from it! I work with electricians all day and they're sharp as tacks. But most of 'em have been lied to so long they buy it all, hook, line, and sinker. Quite a few of them get drawn in by the social conservative outlook and then just go along with the rest of it.
RhysabOweyn 1y ago
There has been an explosion of enrollments from red states in recent years, getting hit with a massive increase in monthly expenses will probably not go down so well: https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/where-aca-marketplace-enrollment-is-growing-the-fastest-and-why/ https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/where-aca-marketplace-enrol...
- fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
  I don't think they'll enjoy a price increase, but I also don't have confidence that the average Trump voter will blame him for it. Most of them are already distrustful of government and this will just validate that. Of course Obamacare failed, Trump was right all along, it failed because too many illegals, etc.

newsclues 1y ago

Because it’s a very profitable industry

almost_usual 1y ago

Hard to pay for a health care system when the population is incentivized to live absolute unhealthy lives. Encourage not sleeping, advertise and manufacture processed garbage, encourage drinking poison, and most of all encourage working long hours over getting any physical activity. Yeah, good luck with that. It’s an every man for themselves environment, the government and American society is fine with throwing your body into the meat grinder for more profit. Ironically we’d be much more productive if we incentivized a healthier lifestyle for the population.

tenacious_tuna 1y ago

I don't think we (Americans) have a solid understanding of political cause and effect. You see this in low turnout for local/state elections (vs federal), and just a lack of understanding of how the various political mechanics work. My mother is an elementary school teacher in a conservative Michigan town. She generally doesn't talk politics at work, but a coworker mentioned that the school's "no questions asked" free breakfast and lunch policy was ending next year due to federal education cuts. My mom's co-teacher, who voted for Trump, expressed surprise, saying she didn't realize that was something likely to be cut, or that the states would make up the shortfall. Anyone remotely following US politics wouldn't be surprised, and would know that most states are fairly strapped for cash. (Whether that's societally optimal is besides the point.) This is a pattern I see over and over again, on both sides of the line: you see Trump voters surprised that cuts to the FDA result in higher food recalls, and you see Democratic voters saying that nothing got done over the last four years. It baffles me. I have more awareness of the local politics in our small Canadian town than I did when I lived in Chicago, and it all just comes from listening to my friends talk about current events. It's a wild feeling.

pjc50 1y ago
There's a lot of media disinformation goes into keeping people that way. It's a weird scenario. American politics is so loud and omnipresent that I, as a Brit on the Internet, end up following it involuntarily because it ends up in every discussion everywhere. But so much of it is just weird things made up by right wing talking heads.
- TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
  The US oligarchy runs the biggest propaganda operation in history. From think tanks that sell neoliberal policy narratives, to captured journalists in the MSM, to Fox News and its imitators, to podcasts, megachurches, conventional media content, carefully curated addictive social media algorithms, paid SM influencers, troll and bot farms, normalised work ethics and workplace dynamics, adtech and the ad industry, and "edgy" sites like nChan - it's all managed messaging. It's targeted across all US demographics. Sometimes covertly. And increasingly it's fine-tuned towards individual interests and psychological triggers.

bpt3 1y ago

America does have a decent healthcare system for the vast majority of its citizens (people with full time jobs and their dependents, plus the elderly). That's a large reason why there is no major change in this area, even though one is sorely needed. Personally, I'd just open Medicare up to anyone who wants it by paying some additional fee each month and see how that goes, but that's too simple for most politicians I think.

getnormality 1y ago
It's kind of amazing that majoritarian democracy is as good as it is at addressing problems experienced by small minorities. It is pretty bad, but it could be much worse.
- vkou 1y ago
  It is incredibly good at addressing the problems experienced by the top 0.1 and 0.001%.
delfinom 1y ago
America's healthcare system is basically a house of cards. Yes for people with jobs and benefits, it works, for now. But so so so much is wrong financially for hospitals, clinics and pharmacies. This administration is poking the house of cards with a really large stick. Pharmacies are so fucked by PBMs( that politicians only pay lip service to dealing with) that they _owe_ money to the PBM everytime they fill many prescriptions. Negative reimbursements. Many small time pharmacies now play games to refuse prescriptions because of how bad it is. PBMs have tried to counter by having distributors write contracts that bar refusals. Chain pharmacies aren't doing much better and are where the negative reimbursement customers end up. "Mom & pop" doctor offices simply are going extinct. Due to both polticians lumping on requirements for digital records, infinite insurance games and cost of real estate going to the moon, every new doctor just joins a mega-hospital-network because they are already 2 million in debt after schooling. Old doctors just sell out their clinics to those hospital networks. Suddenly doctors that work there get put under strict quotas. This is something I've seen happen in real time in my suburban part of NY. My doctor's office that also fell under the growing blob of a mega-network, now has numerous signs saying "new concerns brought up during the appointment must be done under a new appointment for billing purposes".

gigatree 1y ago

Just like it is the case wrt Israel - it doesn’t matter who made it to office, the result was always going to be the same

pfisch 1y ago
The democrats obviously weren't going to destroy the ACA like this.
spauldo 1y ago
Israel is a special case. Obama made some "maybe we should consider what the Palestinians have to say" noises and you see the political blowback he got over it.

blibble 1y ago

working class USians continuously vote against their own interests https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1BBBblrK44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1BBBblrK44

righthand 1y ago

It is cool to be uneducated and to instead believe unchecked made up bs in the US, as long as said bs maintains the status quo. It is the saddest part of this country.

tlogan 1y ago

America arguably offers the best healthcare in the world. If you can afford it. The quality of care, technology, and expertise are top-tier for those with excellent insurance or deep pockets. But the system is neither free nor particularly efficient. For many, access is limited by cost, bureaucracy, and inequities. So yes, it is best care available, but not best care accessible.

chris_wot 1y ago
In other words: so what?

supertrope 1y ago

We are still waiting for our Otto Von Bismarck or William Beveridge. Each company and guild in the medical-industrial complex resists reform. They're fundamentally businesses that provide healthcare, not services for all Americans. Any attempt to rationalize the system is decried as "socialism."