6 ms·

I love the contrast in "Low tech/bootstrapped tech" this way vs, say, duskos.org. I call this "rabbits vs forth" tech bootstrappers. [1]. It's somewhat strange

I love the contrast in "Low tech/bootstrapped tech" this way vs, say, duskos.org. I call this "rabbits vs forth" tech bootstrappers. [1]. It's somewhat strange to me that their tech journey is so narrative and ends up with a VM stack, rather than any kind of salvaged / repurposed hard tech. But then again, I'm probably on the forth side of the spectrum. https://jodavaho.io/posts/rabbits-or-forth.html https://jodavaho.io/posts/rabbits-or-forth.html

throwaway328 1y ago
Nice post. I hadn't noticed the "subtle suggestions" of donations myself, to be honest, but maybe I hadn't browsed around their pages enough. Anyway, if they do mention it, is it not a very far cry from the situation everywhere else? Youtubers begging, screaming, shouting, seducing, murmuring, doing the bug-eyes, repeating, cloying, getting emotionally heavy and forceful, for subscriptions, likes, and comments? Interspersed with violent sudden shifts to advertising products, etc. So it was a bit of a surprise to hear it mentioned like it might be bad. Are you surprised that the suggestions are so gentle? Or what
- qqqwerty 1y ago
  Perhaps OP can clarify, because I too read that as a snarky dig. Perhaps that wasn't their intention, but it felt off. The only place I saw a "subtle suggestion" for a donation was by clicking the "Support" link all the way at the bottom of the page. The site has probably the least intrusive monetization scheme one could implement without forgoing it entirely.
  - 0xCaponte 1y ago
    Same here, after reading this I looked into multiple sites and articles and I only find that "Support" link in the footer. Maybe they changed things recently?
jdiff 1y ago
With their stance of permacomputing, you don't think the two go hand in hand? A simple VM that can be implemented quickly on almost any hardware or underlying tech stack you can scrounge together? The only thing they'd be really against is designing new hardware to run Uxn "natively," which would seem to push you exclusively to reuse what you have.
- kragen 1y ago
  100r's Uxn/Varvara aspires to be that, but that's not the same thing as succeeding at it. AFAIK the smallest computer with a full Uxn/Varvara implementation is a Nintendo DS [correction! Game Boy Advance], which is faster than the Sun workstation I was using in the 90s (though it has less RAM). You probably aren't going to get it running on an eZ80-based TI calculator, for example, or an Arduino UNO. It's a good first step in that direction, the first attempt at permacomputing good enough to criticize.
  - roughly 1y ago
    > the first attempt <…> good enough to criticize. Ooh, I like this phrase.
    - kragen 1y ago
      From Wiki: http://found.ward.bay.wiki.org/view/good-enough-to-criticize http://found.ward.bay.wiki.org/view/good-enough-to-criticize > Alan Kay described the Macintosh as the first personal computer good enough to be criticized. It was a serious step toward Kay's Dynabook. Not perfect, but in the right direction. In this 2017 interview Kay explains how he came to his vision and how it has been completely lost in mobile devices since. https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-about-the-iphone-and-technology-now https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-ab... While I think the implicit equation of Uxn with the 128KiB Macintosh is reasonable, the implicit comparison of me to Alan Kay is not.
      - kragen 1y ago
accrual 1y ago
> ends up with a VM stack, rather than any kind of salvaged / repurposed hard tech I love reading the Hundred Rabbits blog but I view it as sort of an artistic endeavor in addition to pure tech. Indeed, my idea of "low tech" would be 16-bit systems or early 32-bit stuff like 386 and 486 PCs, etc. These machines are surprisingly capable even in 2025 with the right applications. They can be repaired seemingly indefinitely with a soldering iron and spare caps.
- anthk 1y ago
  - gopher browser -> gopher://magical.fish as a portal - HN can be read at gopher://hngopher.com - irc -> bitlbee.org to chat with anyone, even IRC with TLS itself. Kirc will run on any potato. - a high end 486 it's needed to play MP3's. Either that or burn your favourites into CD's. - sc-im+gnuplot/emacs' ses+gnulot - srln+slrnpull - telescope/sacc can do gopher fine. gemini can be stalled. - sfeed+links to read news. Altough gmane.io and gwene.io can relay mail lists and RSS feeds as NNTP groups and then your might slrn will just read all news happily in a 486 (or less). - translate -> simply translate - Reuters -> http://neuters.de http://neuters.de
  - accrual 1y ago
    Yes 100%! Some other regular HTTP sites that run great on old hardware are: * http://theoldnet.com/ http://theoldnet.com/ * http://68k.news/ http://68k.news/ * http://weather.maniac.com/ http://weather.maniac.com/
- severak_cz 1y ago
  Yes - this is definitely some kind of computer performance art or something like that.
anthk 1y ago
I still use an Atom N270 netbook, and DuskOS is on the edge; but there are zillions of Atom netbooks in LaTam and in the outside as goverments agreed to ship these to students. With TUI/CLI tools you can do wonders, far more than CollapseOS. Yes, I know Forth, I did a good chunk of Starting Forth. UXN once tweaked it can run stuff like Oquonie. BTW, a properly set Emacs can double as a great legacy platform too; from IRC to whatever (Bitlbee<>IRC), Web browsing, email, gopher and gemini browser with elpher (and the Gemini proxy gemini://gemi.dev), epub reading, music and video (Emacs' emms, but mpv+yt-dlp can be set to play stuff at 480p/720@30FPS), Usenet client, RSS, Elisp itself, M-x calc and Gnuplot, PDF viewer (pdf-tools), Org-Mode+Hyperbole to expand your brain like nothing, sokoban gaming, Tetris, ZMachine text adventures with Malyon, MUDs, trace routers from OpenStreetMap with osm.el ... For stucking I/O: Usenet->slrnpull+GNUS. Mail->Mu4e+mu. People doesn't know that today computers from 2003 can do wonders and access far more services than they would think. Once you can do TLS 1.3 'fast' enough (P4 w/ SSE2), you can do anything from IRC, email, gopher, gemini, usenet and rss from proxies and terminal or Emacs clients.

throwaway328 1y ago

Nice post. I hadn't noticed the "subtle suggestions" of donations myself, to be honest, but maybe I hadn't browsed around their pages enough. Anyway, if they do mention it, is it not a very far cry from the situation everywhere else? Youtubers begging, screaming, shouting, seducing, murmuring, doing the bug-eyes, repeating, cloying, getting emotionally heavy and forceful, for subscriptions, likes, and comments? Interspersed with violent sudden shifts to advertising products, etc. So it was a bit of a surprise to hear it mentioned like it might be bad. Are you surprised that the suggestions are so gentle? Or what

qqqwerty 1y ago
Perhaps OP can clarify, because I too read that as a snarky dig. Perhaps that wasn't their intention, but it felt off. The only place I saw a "subtle suggestion" for a donation was by clicking the "Support" link all the way at the bottom of the page. The site has probably the least intrusive monetization scheme one could implement without forgoing it entirely.
- 0xCaponte 1y ago
  Same here, after reading this I looked into multiple sites and articles and I only find that "Support" link in the footer. Maybe they changed things recently?

jdiff 1y ago

With their stance of permacomputing, you don't think the two go hand in hand? A simple VM that can be implemented quickly on almost any hardware or underlying tech stack you can scrounge together? The only thing they'd be really against is designing new hardware to run Uxn "natively," which would seem to push you exclusively to reuse what you have.

kragen 1y ago
100r's Uxn/Varvara aspires to be that, but that's not the same thing as succeeding at it. AFAIK the smallest computer with a full Uxn/Varvara implementation is a Nintendo DS [correction! Game Boy Advance], which is faster than the Sun workstation I was using in the 90s (though it has less RAM). You probably aren't going to get it running on an eZ80-based TI calculator, for example, or an Arduino UNO. It's a good first step in that direction, the first attempt at permacomputing good enough to criticize.
- roughly 1y ago
  > the first attempt <…> good enough to criticize. Ooh, I like this phrase.
  - kragen 1y ago
    From Wiki: http://found.ward.bay.wiki.org/view/good-enough-to-criticize http://found.ward.bay.wiki.org/view/good-enough-to-criticize > Alan Kay described the Macintosh as the first personal computer good enough to be criticized. It was a serious step toward Kay's Dynabook. Not perfect, but in the right direction. In this 2017 interview Kay explains how he came to his vision and how it has been completely lost in mobile devices since. https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-about-the-iphone-and-technology-now https://www.fastcompany.com/40435064/what-alan-kay-thinks-ab... While I think the implicit equation of Uxn with the 128KiB Macintosh is reasonable, the implicit comparison of me to Alan Kay is not.
    - kragen 1y ago

accrual 1y ago

> ends up with a VM stack, rather than any kind of salvaged / repurposed hard tech I love reading the Hundred Rabbits blog but I view it as sort of an artistic endeavor in addition to pure tech. Indeed, my idea of "low tech" would be 16-bit systems or early 32-bit stuff like 386 and 486 PCs, etc. These machines are surprisingly capable even in 2025 with the right applications. They can be repaired seemingly indefinitely with a soldering iron and spare caps.

anthk 1y ago
- gopher browser -> gopher://magical.fish as a portal - HN can be read at gopher://hngopher.com - irc -> bitlbee.org to chat with anyone, even IRC with TLS itself. Kirc will run on any potato. - a high end 486 it's needed to play MP3's. Either that or burn your favourites into CD's. - sc-im+gnuplot/emacs' ses+gnulot - srln+slrnpull - telescope/sacc can do gopher fine. gemini can be stalled. - sfeed+links to read news. Altough gmane.io and gwene.io can relay mail lists and RSS feeds as NNTP groups and then your might slrn will just read all news happily in a 486 (or less). - translate -> simply translate - Reuters -> http://neuters.de http://neuters.de
- accrual 1y ago
  Yes 100%! Some other regular HTTP sites that run great on old hardware are: * http://theoldnet.com/ http://theoldnet.com/ * http://68k.news/ http://68k.news/ * http://weather.maniac.com/ http://weather.maniac.com/
severak_cz 1y ago
Yes - this is definitely some kind of computer performance art or something like that.

anthk 1y ago

I still use an Atom N270 netbook, and DuskOS is on the edge; but there are zillions of Atom netbooks in LaTam and in the outside as goverments agreed to ship these to students. With TUI/CLI tools you can do wonders, far more than CollapseOS. Yes, I know Forth, I did a good chunk of Starting Forth. UXN once tweaked it can run stuff like Oquonie. BTW, a properly set Emacs can double as a great legacy platform too; from IRC to whatever (Bitlbee<>IRC), Web browsing, email, gopher and gemini browser with elpher (and the Gemini proxy gemini://gemi.dev), epub reading, music and video (Emacs' emms, but mpv+yt-dlp can be set to play stuff at 480p/720@30FPS), Usenet client, RSS, Elisp itself, M-x calc and Gnuplot, PDF viewer (pdf-tools), Org-Mode+Hyperbole to expand your brain like nothing, sokoban gaming, Tetris, ZMachine text adventures with Malyon, MUDs, trace routers from OpenStreetMap with osm.el ... For stucking I/O: Usenet->slrnpull+GNUS. Mail->Mu4e+mu. People doesn't know that today computers from 2003 can do wonders and access far more services than they would think. Once you can do TLS 1.3 'fast' enough (P4 w/ SSE2), you can do anything from IRC, email, gopher, gemini, usenet and rss from proxies and terminal or Emacs clients.