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There is no other manufacturer that sells what I want. The alternative is worse (Google) or incompatible with the reality of my daily life (my banks app won't w

There is no other manufacturer that sells what I want. The alternative is worse (Google) or incompatible with the reality of my daily life (my banks app won't work on it). On the desktop side of things it's getting better, the Framework desktop is interesting, but there's still no REAL alternative yet. Maybe in 5 years.

ktallett 1y ago
Fairphone and a Framework is just fine. What exactly do you do that suggests there is no alternative? I can see absolutely nothing Apple does that no other laptop can.
- bayindirh 1y ago
  > I can see absolutely nothing Apple does that no other laptop can. Let me check the list. - High DPI screen with color calibration and automatic white balancing, working 99% of the time. Ensuring your eyes always sees the color it expects without fatigue. Plus, HDR. - Most decent external screens you plug will also have their correct color profile installed on the OS level, so they'll not show funny colors. - 15+ hour battery life on an ordinary laptop if you don't abuse it. Even my M1 can handle me for a couple of days with light usage. - Good quality speakers, decent stereo separation without being too tinny or boomy. - Great quality cameras and microphones for its size. - Great, backlight illuminated keyboard, with no flex. - A realistic 8-10 year usage life without babying it. - A full metal body, and keeping it light for that amount of metal. - Built-in biometrics which runs on a proper secure enclave, without any "touch here, write absurdly long pasword you don't know there" shenanigans of Windows. - A POSIX compliant, BSD descendant OS which can interoperate with Linux way better than Windows. - A proper backup system which backs up whole OS and system state to an external drive, better than old "Windows 7 backup" and miles better than new "OneDrive only Windows Backup". - Better radios, backend and port bandwidth than its class-equivalent machines. Essentially a loaded MacBook Pro is equivalent to a Z-Workstation Mobile from HP. ...and these are standard in almost every MacBook. I don't go through hoops to beg local distributors to build the machine I like via their configuration wizard, and wait them to import it if they feel like it, and pay 3x of its sticker price because it's a one off import tucked inside a bigger shipment. Even CTO devices by Apple are shipped in a week and comes to my door in another 1-2. I pay the sticker price for the device I want. Do you need more? Sent from my Linux desktop system.
  - ktallett 1y ago
    It has some benefits, the battery life (you aren't getting 15 hours from it doing a normal workload), keyboard, cameras, are pretty similar to many other laptops. Linux exists so a pale imitation isn't needed, its not light, and there are plenty of as good if not better back up options. What about the overall quality of the software and hardware being rather poor? No repair-ability, a limited OS now, low quality glass covering the screens, lack of long term support for many laptops now?
    - PaulRobinson 1y ago
      You are 100% getting 15 hours from a normal workload. The keyboard is better than any other laptop keyboard. The camera is better than any other laptop integrated webcam. The quality of the software is same or better as Linux (because getting all your Linux desktop and command line software running is a brew install away). The hardware is class leading. The screens are best in class. The laptops will last you 8-10 years and then you can install a Linux on them and keep them going for another 5. Yes, repairability is poor, but improving. I get why people make other choices, but the idea that Apple hardware is poor quality and the software is terrible just isn't the way to do it. Argue about purity of freedom, argue about cost (Apple hardware is expensive, because it's superb), argue about crappy dev account policies like the thread is here to support. But, y'know, don't just make up stuff anybody who uses this stuff daily knows is just made up...
      - ktallett 1y ago
        HP have a better webcam (Higher res and better colours), Z Book and Framework have the same keyboard basically, the software is no where near as good (far more locked down), considering M series have been out for 5 and many had very speedy failures I doubt 8-10 years especially for the base models on low ram. Multicore scores (so for any form of simulation or parallel computing) work M series are not even in the conversation in comparison with the latest AMD and Intel. Another key issue is due to architecture change, their reusability once they become unusable in their current form means its Asahi or nothing. Repairability is non existant, a battery and some ports is not anything to shout about. I have used Macs since the early 90's when they were repairable, pretty much consistently and I still have to on occassion but they have dropped the ball on every aspect. From the late 90's repairability and innovation have gone downhill. The late 00's to the early 10's brought it back and ever since then bar the odd thing that is pretty but less practical, just look at the touch bar and the removal of ports. I have had Thinkpads, ZBooks, and other laptops such as Lets Note easily as long as a macbook and yes some of the pretty may be missing but that isn't what I focus on in devices.
- newdee 1y ago
  Then you haven’t lived with a Mac
  - ktallett 1y ago
    I have. I had one for over 20 years. They are not what they were.
    - OldfieldFund 1y ago
      Apple Silicon is amazing when it comes to cost-performance and battery life
      - ktallett 1y ago
        I would agree in general for the base model macbook airs, as you go up the range the value just isn't there anymore when in comparison. I still do not see the battery life for my use case. There are too many other flaws for me (repairibility, quality of software decreasing massively, issues with screen quality in everyway bar colour/vibrancy) though that means I won't choose them anymore as much as I adored Apple for many years and am still a fan boy over classic macs.
        OldfieldFund 1y ago
        MacBook Pro M4 with Pro/Max CPUs are 3-4x faster on multicore benchmarks compared to Air's M4. Air M4 is not enough for my heavy usage of multiple browsers, agents, scripts, and different spinoffs of VS Code at the same time. What's the problem with your battery life? Check which app is draining your battery in Activity Monitor/Energy.
mrgaro 1y ago
How it is possible that your bank don't have an Android app if they have an iPhone app?
- bowsamic 1y ago
  > The alternative is worse (Google)
- sussmannbaka 1y ago
  Their app needs Google Play Services. To install it on an Android device I'd want to use over my iPhone, I'd have to jump through a bunch of hoops and it would become a project with permanent upkeep. So I use an iPhone instead.
Eddy_Viscosity2 1y ago
> There is no other manufacturer that sells what I want. Not only that, but if there was one it would very likely become very popular. As it is gained market share money and power it that doing all bad things the currently big players are doing (because they tend to increase that money and power) and you're back looking for an alternative again. Regulations, not market forces are the only way to curb these bad behaviors.

ktallett 1y ago

Fairphone and a Framework is just fine. What exactly do you do that suggests there is no alternative? I can see absolutely nothing Apple does that no other laptop can.

bayindirh 1y ago
> I can see absolutely nothing Apple does that no other laptop can. Let me check the list. - High DPI screen with color calibration and automatic white balancing, working 99% of the time. Ensuring your eyes always sees the color it expects without fatigue. Plus, HDR. - Most decent external screens you plug will also have their correct color profile installed on the OS level, so they'll not show funny colors. - 15+ hour battery life on an ordinary laptop if you don't abuse it. Even my M1 can handle me for a couple of days with light usage. - Good quality speakers, decent stereo separation without being too tinny or boomy. - Great quality cameras and microphones for its size. - Great, backlight illuminated keyboard, with no flex. - A realistic 8-10 year usage life without babying it. - A full metal body, and keeping it light for that amount of metal. - Built-in biometrics which runs on a proper secure enclave, without any "touch here, write absurdly long pasword you don't know there" shenanigans of Windows. - A POSIX compliant, BSD descendant OS which can interoperate with Linux way better than Windows. - A proper backup system which backs up whole OS and system state to an external drive, better than old "Windows 7 backup" and miles better than new "OneDrive only Windows Backup". - Better radios, backend and port bandwidth than its class-equivalent machines. Essentially a loaded MacBook Pro is equivalent to a Z-Workstation Mobile from HP. ...and these are standard in almost every MacBook. I don't go through hoops to beg local distributors to build the machine I like via their configuration wizard, and wait them to import it if they feel like it, and pay 3x of its sticker price because it's a one off import tucked inside a bigger shipment. Even CTO devices by Apple are shipped in a week and comes to my door in another 1-2. I pay the sticker price for the device I want. Do you need more? Sent from my Linux desktop system.
- ktallett 1y ago
  It has some benefits, the battery life (you aren't getting 15 hours from it doing a normal workload), keyboard, cameras, are pretty similar to many other laptops. Linux exists so a pale imitation isn't needed, its not light, and there are plenty of as good if not better back up options. What about the overall quality of the software and hardware being rather poor? No repair-ability, a limited OS now, low quality glass covering the screens, lack of long term support for many laptops now?
  - PaulRobinson 1y ago
    You are 100% getting 15 hours from a normal workload. The keyboard is better than any other laptop keyboard. The camera is better than any other laptop integrated webcam. The quality of the software is same or better as Linux (because getting all your Linux desktop and command line software running is a brew install away). The hardware is class leading. The screens are best in class. The laptops will last you 8-10 years and then you can install a Linux on them and keep them going for another 5. Yes, repairability is poor, but improving. I get why people make other choices, but the idea that Apple hardware is poor quality and the software is terrible just isn't the way to do it. Argue about purity of freedom, argue about cost (Apple hardware is expensive, because it's superb), argue about crappy dev account policies like the thread is here to support. But, y'know, don't just make up stuff anybody who uses this stuff daily knows is just made up...
    - ktallett 1y ago
      HP have a better webcam (Higher res and better colours), Z Book and Framework have the same keyboard basically, the software is no where near as good (far more locked down), considering M series have been out for 5 and many had very speedy failures I doubt 8-10 years especially for the base models on low ram. Multicore scores (so for any form of simulation or parallel computing) work M series are not even in the conversation in comparison with the latest AMD and Intel. Another key issue is due to architecture change, their reusability once they become unusable in their current form means its Asahi or nothing. Repairability is non existant, a battery and some ports is not anything to shout about. I have used Macs since the early 90's when they were repairable, pretty much consistently and I still have to on occassion but they have dropped the ball on every aspect. From the late 90's repairability and innovation have gone downhill. The late 00's to the early 10's brought it back and ever since then bar the odd thing that is pretty but less practical, just look at the touch bar and the removal of ports. I have had Thinkpads, ZBooks, and other laptops such as Lets Note easily as long as a macbook and yes some of the pretty may be missing but that isn't what I focus on in devices.
newdee 1y ago
Then you haven’t lived with a Mac
- ktallett 1y ago
  I have. I had one for over 20 years. They are not what they were.
  - OldfieldFund 1y ago
    Apple Silicon is amazing when it comes to cost-performance and battery life
    - ktallett 1y ago
      I would agree in general for the base model macbook airs, as you go up the range the value just isn't there anymore when in comparison. I still do not see the battery life for my use case. There are too many other flaws for me (repairibility, quality of software decreasing massively, issues with screen quality in everyway bar colour/vibrancy) though that means I won't choose them anymore as much as I adored Apple for many years and am still a fan boy over classic macs.
      - OldfieldFund 1y ago
        MacBook Pro M4 with Pro/Max CPUs are 3-4x faster on multicore benchmarks compared to Air's M4. Air M4 is not enough for my heavy usage of multiple browsers, agents, scripts, and different spinoffs of VS Code at the same time. What's the problem with your battery life? Check which app is draining your battery in Activity Monitor/Energy.

mrgaro 1y ago

How it is possible that your bank don't have an Android app if they have an iPhone app?

bowsamic 1y ago
> The alternative is worse (Google)
sussmannbaka 1y ago
Their app needs Google Play Services. To install it on an Android device I'd want to use over my iPhone, I'd have to jump through a bunch of hoops and it would become a project with permanent upkeep. So I use an iPhone instead.

Eddy_Viscosity2 1y ago

> There is no other manufacturer that sells what I want. Not only that, but if there was one it would very likely become very popular. As it is gained market share money and power it that doing all bad things the currently big players are doing (because they tend to increase that money and power) and you're back looking for an alternative again. Regulations, not market forces are the only way to curb these bad behaviors.