4 ms·

I’ve been hearing about this for decades. It keeps happening because republicans need their cheap labor and democrats need foreign voters. The people in power h

I’ve been hearing about this for decades. It keeps happening because republicans need their cheap labor and democrats need foreign voters. The people in power have tremendous political incentives to keep the pipeline flowing.

bestouff 1y ago
Does this mean only foreigners aren't brainwashed enough to mostly vote Republican ?
- deleted 1y ago
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- blargthorwars 1y ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
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poulsbohemian 1y ago
Given that one must be a citizen to vote, this doesn’t appear to be the right angle through which to call out the Democratic Party. If you were to speak with Democratic Party leadership, I believe the emphasis would be on attractive talent from around the world to keep American businesses competitive. Certainly if there are problems with these visa programs, it’s worthwhile to bring them up to elected officials and push for changes.
- rayiner 1y ago
  H1Bs get citizenship, and they raise their children in their home cultures. My parents are citizens and have been voting for decades. But they still think and vote like Bangladeshis. I’m not saying it’s some written-out plan. But look at how left wing Indians and Indian politicians in the U.S. are compared to say German Americans. (Socialism was a founding principle of the modern Indian state.) People in the party are acting according to their incentives.
  - esseph 1y ago
    India is overwhelmingly conservative. March 1990 changed everything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_India
- deleted 1y ago
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FirmwareBurner 1y ago
[flagged]
- danesparza 1y ago
  Look closer, or choose different friends. This is an extremely reductionist view of what's going on right now. If you don't see people in both parties working hard to try to shelter, protect and defend these people, you aren't looking hard enough.
- intermerda 1y ago
  > Where did you see that? On the news, I only see democrats crying "who's gonna mow my lawn" whenever Donald is deporting illegals, neve republicans. This is a brain rotten to the core on right wing propaganda. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/donald-trump-stephen-miller-washington-white-house-hotel-b2770228.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/donald-trump-stephen-mill... https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-u-turn-deporting-farm-215426920.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-u-turn-deporting-farm-21542... https://archive.ph/1Q4p9 https://archive.ph/1Q4p9
- pcthrowaway 1y ago
  I haven't seen any criticism of deportations from Democrats because "who's gonna mow my lawn". I'm sure it happens, but I haven't seen it. I've seen an endless feed of Democrats and people further left concerned about the human rights abuses happening right now with ICE and deportations Bold of you to assume any of these people have a lawn to mow.
delusional 1y ago
> democrats need foreign voters Is there any proof for this statement? Republicans want cheap labor, they'll tell you that themselves, but I don't believe the Democrats would ever say that they believe in labor immigration to "get more voters". That just sounds like a ludicrous conspiracy.
- rayiner 1y ago
  Have you forgotten the last 15 years of “demographics is destiny” and “coalition of the ascendant” rhetoric? The rising identity politics? All together with a strong shift in pro-immigration policy from the party since 2008? (In 2004, democrats and republicans had roughly similar views on immigration: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-democrats-became-stuck-on-immigration https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-democrats-became-st....)
  - delusional 1y ago
    I'm not American. This is the first time I'm hearing either "demographics is destiny" or "coalition of the ascendant". "Demographics is destiny" seems to be a quote from a french philosopher from the 1800s, while "coalition of the ascendant" seems to be a description of the coalition Obama sought to build in his second term, an idea swiftly dismantled in 2016. The articles I can find discussing these things don't contain any democrats scheming about using immigrants to overtake the republicans. The only people I find talking about how it will "estrange the republican party from these growing demographics" are republicans. I'm not going to claim that no democrat has ever considered that outcome, but I am going to propose that it seems more likely to me that if that were to happen it would be a result of politics they'd be in favor of anyway. In general, it's pretty popular to help people. I don't think republicans would disagree that part of their coalition is built on higher income individuals, which they hope to grow by raising incomes. They're not doing that as a sort of underhanded tactic, they believe income is good. In the same way I think the Obama democrats do believe in helping immigrants, and obviously that makes them more popular amongst immigrants. That's not a scheme, that's just a policy. I don't think this is nearly as clear cut as you believe it is.
esseph 1y ago
They can't vote in Federal elections if they're not citizens.
- rayiner 1y ago
  In practice, H1B is a pipeline to citizenship, not just for the worker but their immediate family and extended family (due to family sponsorship). One H1 visa to my dad resulted in seven additional Bangladeshis in the U.S. And my dad did not sponsor a fraction of the family members he could have. Moreover, foreign mindsets are durable over generations: https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-transplant https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-tran... ("In The Culture Transplant, Garett Jones documents the cultural foundations of cross-country income differences, showing that immigrants import cultural attitudes from their homelands—toward saving, toward trust, and toward the role of government—that persist for decades, and likely for centuries, in their new national homes. Full assimilation in a generation or two, Jones reports, is a myth.").
  - esseph 1y ago
    > "Moreover, foreign mindsets are durable over generation" Right, and most countries are very conservative compared to the US, in particular many of the countries that the average H1B holder is from. India, for example. That means Republican voters. The entire premise is flawed fearmongering.
    - rayiner 1y ago
      Anglo culture is distinctive both in its liberalism and its conservatism. My Bangladeshi family are well to the right of American republicans when it comes to say tattoos or divorce, but they don’t care about limited government or legal proceduralism. I don’t have to fear monger. The cake is already baked. David Shor estimates that Trump tied or narrowly won foreign-born voters. Mass immigration didn’t kill the GOP, but it changed what kind of conservative party could assemble a winning coalition. And it looks like more like Trump (or Bolsonaro or Modi) and less like Mitt Romney or George H.W. Bush. Hope Obama was worth it!

bestouff 1y ago

Does this mean only foreigners aren't brainwashed enough to mostly vote Republican ?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
blargthorwars 1y ago
[flagged]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

poulsbohemian 1y ago

Given that one must be a citizen to vote, this doesn’t appear to be the right angle through which to call out the Democratic Party. If you were to speak with Democratic Party leadership, I believe the emphasis would be on attractive talent from around the world to keep American businesses competitive. Certainly if there are problems with these visa programs, it’s worthwhile to bring them up to elected officials and push for changes.

rayiner 1y ago
H1Bs get citizenship, and they raise their children in their home cultures. My parents are citizens and have been voting for decades. But they still think and vote like Bangladeshis. I’m not saying it’s some written-out plan. But look at how left wing Indians and Indian politicians in the U.S. are compared to say German Americans. (Socialism was a founding principle of the modern Indian state.) People in the party are acting according to their incentives.
- esseph 1y ago
  India is overwhelmingly conservative. March 1990 changed everything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_India
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

FirmwareBurner 1y ago

[flagged]

danesparza 1y ago
Look closer, or choose different friends. This is an extremely reductionist view of what's going on right now. If you don't see people in both parties working hard to try to shelter, protect and defend these people, you aren't looking hard enough.
intermerda 1y ago
> Where did you see that? On the news, I only see democrats crying "who's gonna mow my lawn" whenever Donald is deporting illegals, neve republicans. This is a brain rotten to the core on right wing propaganda. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/donald-trump-stephen-miller-washington-white-house-hotel-b2770228.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/donald-trump-stephen-mill... https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-u-turn-deporting-farm-215426920.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-u-turn-deporting-farm-21542... https://archive.ph/1Q4p9 https://archive.ph/1Q4p9
pcthrowaway 1y ago
I haven't seen any criticism of deportations from Democrats because "who's gonna mow my lawn". I'm sure it happens, but I haven't seen it. I've seen an endless feed of Democrats and people further left concerned about the human rights abuses happening right now with ICE and deportations Bold of you to assume any of these people have a lawn to mow.

delusional 1y ago

> democrats need foreign voters Is there any proof for this statement? Republicans want cheap labor, they'll tell you that themselves, but I don't believe the Democrats would ever say that they believe in labor immigration to "get more voters". That just sounds like a ludicrous conspiracy.

rayiner 1y ago
Have you forgotten the last 15 years of “demographics is destiny” and “coalition of the ascendant” rhetoric? The rising identity politics? All together with a strong shift in pro-immigration policy from the party since 2008? (In 2004, democrats and republicans had roughly similar views on immigration: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-democrats-became-stuck-on-immigration https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-democrats-became-st....)
- delusional 1y ago
  I'm not American. This is the first time I'm hearing either "demographics is destiny" or "coalition of the ascendant". "Demographics is destiny" seems to be a quote from a french philosopher from the 1800s, while "coalition of the ascendant" seems to be a description of the coalition Obama sought to build in his second term, an idea swiftly dismantled in 2016. The articles I can find discussing these things don't contain any democrats scheming about using immigrants to overtake the republicans. The only people I find talking about how it will "estrange the republican party from these growing demographics" are republicans. I'm not going to claim that no democrat has ever considered that outcome, but I am going to propose that it seems more likely to me that if that were to happen it would be a result of politics they'd be in favor of anyway. In general, it's pretty popular to help people. I don't think republicans would disagree that part of their coalition is built on higher income individuals, which they hope to grow by raising incomes. They're not doing that as a sort of underhanded tactic, they believe income is good. In the same way I think the Obama democrats do believe in helping immigrants, and obviously that makes them more popular amongst immigrants. That's not a scheme, that's just a policy. I don't think this is nearly as clear cut as you believe it is.

esseph 1y ago

They can't vote in Federal elections if they're not citizens.

rayiner 1y ago
In practice, H1B is a pipeline to citizenship, not just for the worker but their immediate family and extended family (due to family sponsorship). One H1 visa to my dad resulted in seven additional Bangladeshis in the U.S. And my dad did not sponsor a fraction of the family members he could have. Moreover, foreign mindsets are durable over generations: https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-transplant https://www.sup.org/books/economics-and-finance/culture-tran... ("In The Culture Transplant, Garett Jones documents the cultural foundations of cross-country income differences, showing that immigrants import cultural attitudes from their homelands—toward saving, toward trust, and toward the role of government—that persist for decades, and likely for centuries, in their new national homes. Full assimilation in a generation or two, Jones reports, is a myth.").
- esseph 1y ago
  > "Moreover, foreign mindsets are durable over generation" Right, and most countries are very conservative compared to the US, in particular many of the countries that the average H1B holder is from. India, for example. That means Republican voters. The entire premise is flawed fearmongering.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    Anglo culture is distinctive both in its liberalism and its conservatism. My Bangladeshi family are well to the right of American republicans when it comes to say tattoos or divorce, but they don’t care about limited government or legal proceduralism. I don’t have to fear monger. The cake is already baked. David Shor estimates that Trump tied or narrowly won foreign-born voters. Mass immigration didn’t kill the GOP, but it changed what kind of conservative party could assemble a winning coalition. And it looks like more like Trump (or Bolsonaro or Modi) and less like Mitt Romney or George H.W. Bush. Hope Obama was worth it!