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"In the USA we have due process, presumption of innocence, double jeopardy, rules of evidence, speedy trial, reasonable search and seizure, prohibitions on ex p

by antidoh 14y ago

"In the USA we have due process, presumption of innocence, double jeopardy, rules of evidence, speedy trial, reasonable search and seizure, prohibitions on ex post facto laws, Miranda rights..." I suppose those things are fundamentally still here, as long as you aren't overly interesting to the govt, but I feel like we have a Cheshire Constitution that is slowly fading away, leaving only its memory and myth behind. - Due process: Bradley Manning, Kim Dotcom/MegaUpload. - Presumption of innocence: Guantanamo (I know, "combatants"), US citizens held for similar reasons. - Speedy trial: see Due process. - Reasonable Search/Seizure: the govt sticks GPS transmitters on cars without warrants. The government declares by law that any email or other electronic information that is on a server longer than six months is "abandoned" and therefore legal to hoover up at their leisure and without a warrant. Which means that all your gmail are belong to them. - Ex post facto laws: telecom immunity. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=telecom+spying+ex+post+facto&t=canonical https://duckduckgo.com/?q=telecom+spying+ex+post+facto&t... We become less exceptional with each day.

csense 14y ago
At least there's a public controversy about those things. Some specific comments about how the Constitution may not be as dead as you think: > Bradley Manning, Kim Dotcom/MegaUpload. I'm pretty sure that the latter is still winding its way through the court system. Not sure about the former. But Manning was also a member of the military, so it makes sense that he should be held to a higher standard than random civilians, with respect to leaking of classified information. > Presumption of innocence US citizens held for similar reasons? Citation needed. > Reasonable search and seizure Warrantless GPS transmitters were unanimously ruled illegal by the Supreme Court [1]. As for your point about email, I'd believe it -- but again, I'm not familiar with it, citation needed. > Telecom immunity Yes, this is a really crappy, sleazy thing our government did. But I'd guess ex post facto only applies to criminalizing behavior after the fact, not decriminalizing it. [1] http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/story/2012-01-23/supreme-court-GPS/52754354/1 http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/story/2012-...
- deleted 14y ago
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- antidoh 14y ago
  > Presumption of innocence > US citizens held for similar reasons? Citation needed. Sorry, I can't find it. I was thinking specifically of someone from the Chicago area with a Hispanic name arrested on suspicion, but I can't find it. My recollection is that he's suspended in the system, but I can't find a citation. While you make excellent points, I still feel like we've lost a lot. Maybe it's a personal thing.

by antidoh 14y ago

csense 14y ago

At least there's a public controversy about those things. Some specific comments about how the Constitution may not be as dead as you think: > Bradley Manning, Kim Dotcom/MegaUpload. I'm pretty sure that the latter is still winding its way through the court system. Not sure about the former. But Manning was also a member of the military, so it makes sense that he should be held to a higher standard than random civilians, with respect to leaking of classified information. > Presumption of innocence US citizens held for similar reasons? Citation needed. > Reasonable search and seizure Warrantless GPS transmitters were unanimously ruled illegal by the Supreme Court [1]. As for your point about email, I'd believe it -- but again, I'm not familiar with it, citation needed. > Telecom immunity Yes, this is a really crappy, sleazy thing our government did. But I'd guess ex post facto only applies to criminalizing behavior after the fact, not decriminalizing it. [1] http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/story/2012-01-23/supreme-court-GPS/52754354/1 http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/story/2012-...

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
antidoh 14y ago
> Presumption of innocence > US citizens held for similar reasons? Citation needed. Sorry, I can't find it. I was thinking specifically of someone from the Chicago area with a Hispanic name arrested on suspicion, but I can't find it. My recollection is that he's suspended in the system, but I can't find a citation. While you make excellent points, I still feel like we've lost a lot. Maybe it's a personal thing.