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> Someone who knows they'll have guaranteed income for the rest of their life is more likely to stop working than someone who is told they will receive guarante

by Jedd 1y ago

> Someone who knows they'll have guaranteed income for the rest of their life is more likely to stop working than someone who is told they will receive guaranteed income for a few years. Is that true - or is that your belief? I feel like if UBI guaranteed that I wouldn't be homeless and starve to death - but did not guarantee me avocado for my toast - I wouldn't stop working. I can't say that for sure, but a lot of the subjective concerns expressed by people about UBI seem to think that it provides the proverbial four-bedroom-house-in-suburbia-with-two-cars-and-an-overseas-holiday-each-year, which might in fact reduce the eagerness for someone to travel two hours a day to sit in a small box and bang away at a keyboard for a third their waking life. The B in UBI stands for Basic.

hatthew 1y ago
> Is that true - or is that your belief? If I was offered basic income for 3 years, I wouldn't change my life in the slightest (maybe I'd make frivolous purchases slightly more often). If I was offered trustworthy basic income for the rest of my life, depending on the amount I would retire at some point within 3 years. If it was the same amount as in this study and was adjusted for inflation, I'd consider retiring on the spot. Maybe I'm just a weird outlier?
- 9x39 1y ago
  >Maybe I'm just a weird outlier? I wouldn't quit either, but I assume you have wealth and are interested in continuing building it. My anecdote that shaped my opinion was that I work closely with the bottom half to bottom quintile - who hold about 2% of the wealth in the US. During COVID, when unemployment was increased greatly and matched or even greatly exceeded weekly wages for frontline staff, they evaporated from the ranks. My interpersonal and social media experience (being friends or followers) interviewing people out of curiosity was basically that the yoke was off, and they're going to relax as long as the checks come in. Professional career staff (finance, it, marketing, engineering, etc) had virtually no defections and returned like nothing happened as soon as work reopened. My conclusion was that wealth holders have a long view that includes a future 'them', while non-wealth holding segments exist in the moment, and 5 years or 20 years from now might as well be someone else's problem. I think that means the bottom half of the systems we depend on crumble the moment we resume wages without work, and I don't see markets stepping in to raise unskilled wages to match skilled wages to compete for them, it simply wouldn't be permitted.
- wat10000 1y ago
  You’d retire on $12,000/year? I feel like all the people saying basic income wouldn’t make everybody retire is missing the actual amount involved. It doesn’t give you a fancy lifestyle. It gives you a shot at not starving.
  - hatthew 1y ago
    Adjusted for inflation and exchange rate, it would be $18,000/yr. That plus my savings and investments is enough that I'd value marginal time over marginal money.
    - wat10000 1y ago
      That's equivalent to $9/hour at a full time job. I doubt many people would be satisfied enough with that level of to retire. Sounds like you're just on the edge of doing it without any additional resources, and this would just tip you over the edge.
      - hatthew 1y ago
        I'm roughly halfway there, and $9/hr could be the other half

by Jedd 1y ago

hatthew 1y ago

> Is that true - or is that your belief? If I was offered basic income for 3 years, I wouldn't change my life in the slightest (maybe I'd make frivolous purchases slightly more often). If I was offered trustworthy basic income for the rest of my life, depending on the amount I would retire at some point within 3 years. If it was the same amount as in this study and was adjusted for inflation, I'd consider retiring on the spot. Maybe I'm just a weird outlier?

9x39 1y ago
>Maybe I'm just a weird outlier? I wouldn't quit either, but I assume you have wealth and are interested in continuing building it. My anecdote that shaped my opinion was that I work closely with the bottom half to bottom quintile - who hold about 2% of the wealth in the US. During COVID, when unemployment was increased greatly and matched or even greatly exceeded weekly wages for frontline staff, they evaporated from the ranks. My interpersonal and social media experience (being friends or followers) interviewing people out of curiosity was basically that the yoke was off, and they're going to relax as long as the checks come in. Professional career staff (finance, it, marketing, engineering, etc) had virtually no defections and returned like nothing happened as soon as work reopened. My conclusion was that wealth holders have a long view that includes a future 'them', while non-wealth holding segments exist in the moment, and 5 years or 20 years from now might as well be someone else's problem. I think that means the bottom half of the systems we depend on crumble the moment we resume wages without work, and I don't see markets stepping in to raise unskilled wages to match skilled wages to compete for them, it simply wouldn't be permitted.
wat10000 1y ago
You’d retire on $12,000/year? I feel like all the people saying basic income wouldn’t make everybody retire is missing the actual amount involved. It doesn’t give you a fancy lifestyle. It gives you a shot at not starving.
- hatthew 1y ago
  Adjusted for inflation and exchange rate, it would be $18,000/yr. That plus my savings and investments is enough that I'd value marginal time over marginal money.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    That's equivalent to $9/hour at a full time job. I doubt many people would be satisfied enough with that level of to retire. Sounds like you're just on the edge of doing it without any additional resources, and this would just tip you over the edge.
    - hatthew 1y ago
      I'm roughly halfway there, and $9/hr could be the other half