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> It's called retirement pensions. And what we see there is that most people, as soon as they are eligible ... This feels like a bizarre take on quite a diffe

by Jedd 1y ago

> It's called retirement pensions. And what we see there is that most people, as soon as they are eligible ... This feels like a bizarre take on quite a different arrangement. That demographic has planned for ~40 years for tha transition, and in many cases is strongly encouraged by their industry / government / superannuation scheme, etc - to stop working at that age. Extrapolating that back to providing a safety net to 20-40yo's just seems to miss everything about UBI - unless it's a 'I didn't have this, so no one else should' position? All the research we're seeing - in very small, time-boxed, precarious trials - indicate that we'll probably get a positive result out of implementing this more broadly, without a drop-dead date attached. The counter-argument always seems to be 'Oh, but we might not...' (and then some opinions).

wredcoll 1y ago
Pascal's scam! Oh no, what if the world explodes! We can't risk it!
david-gpu 1y ago
> Extrapolating that back to providing a safety net to 20-40yo's just seems to miss everything about UBI - unless it's a 'I didn't have this, so no one else should' position? Quite the opposite. I basically retired at 40. A few of my coworkers did the same. Most people, when given the means to quit working, choose to retire. Most people don't retire at age X because they have reached age X, they do it because they finally are eligible for a pension.
- stouset 1y ago
  > I basically retired at 40. I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess your monthly spending exceeds $10-20k and is probably well north of $100k.
  - david-gpu 1y ago
    Wrong by a large factor. We have a very modest lifestyle.
- Jedd 1y ago
  > Quite the opposite. I basically retired at 40. A few of my coworkers did the same. You do get that's anecdotal, right? And that a basic income will mean you don't die from starvation, but won't give you the kind of comfortable lifestyle that you and a few of your ex-coworkers presumably scored from some happenstance in your employment arc, right? And that there's lots of research about how 'most people' do not in fact stop working, at least within the confines of the trials done, right?
- anonzzzies 1y ago
  Most my friends and myself could retire after the 90s Internet boom: we all sold. Most before 30. No one did as its boring. Travelling gets boring: everything I see rich people typically do I still find boring now in my 50s and I could've done all of that for the past 25+ years. I am quite sure I will never stop working and this seems the same for my friend group. I am not saying life satisfaction comes from work necessarily, but at least the people I call friends have a drive to produce things and feel validation and satisfaction from that: in the west that validation is usually money and recognition from peers and large groups of strangers. But yeah, I guess many people dont want to work because their options for work suck. It is not that many of those their contribution is not basically 0 or negative now as it is and with robots/ai coming in the coming 50 years, I rather have them living a human life with social housing, free playstations and basic income instead of slaving away at something useless just because of some weird idea that any work is better than no work to spend their short life on.
- wat10000 1y ago
  People usually voluntarily retire when they have the resources to maintain their lifestyle. Basic income wouldn’t be nearly as much as a pension, so that wouldn’t really apply. And taking a pension means you have to quit, whereas a basic income pays you even if you keep working. The comparison really doesn’t seem to work.

by Jedd 1y ago

wredcoll 1y ago

Pascal's scam! Oh no, what if the world explodes! We can't risk it!

david-gpu 1y ago

> Extrapolating that back to providing a safety net to 20-40yo's just seems to miss everything about UBI - unless it's a 'I didn't have this, so no one else should' position? Quite the opposite. I basically retired at 40. A few of my coworkers did the same. Most people, when given the means to quit working, choose to retire. Most people don't retire at age X because they have reached age X, they do it because they finally are eligible for a pension.

stouset 1y ago
> I basically retired at 40. I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess your monthly spending exceeds $10-20k and is probably well north of $100k.
- david-gpu 1y ago
  Wrong by a large factor. We have a very modest lifestyle.
Jedd 1y ago
> Quite the opposite. I basically retired at 40. A few of my coworkers did the same. You do get that's anecdotal, right? And that a basic income will mean you don't die from starvation, but won't give you the kind of comfortable lifestyle that you and a few of your ex-coworkers presumably scored from some happenstance in your employment arc, right? And that there's lots of research about how 'most people' do not in fact stop working, at least within the confines of the trials done, right?
anonzzzies 1y ago
Most my friends and myself could retire after the 90s Internet boom: we all sold. Most before 30. No one did as its boring. Travelling gets boring: everything I see rich people typically do I still find boring now in my 50s and I could've done all of that for the past 25+ years. I am quite sure I will never stop working and this seems the same for my friend group. I am not saying life satisfaction comes from work necessarily, but at least the people I call friends have a drive to produce things and feel validation and satisfaction from that: in the west that validation is usually money and recognition from peers and large groups of strangers. But yeah, I guess many people dont want to work because their options for work suck. It is not that many of those their contribution is not basically 0 or negative now as it is and with robots/ai coming in the coming 50 years, I rather have them living a human life with social housing, free playstations and basic income instead of slaving away at something useless just because of some weird idea that any work is better than no work to spend their short life on.
wat10000 1y ago
People usually voluntarily retire when they have the resources to maintain their lifestyle. Basic income wouldn’t be nearly as much as a pension, so that wouldn’t really apply. And taking a pension means you have to quit, whereas a basic income pays you even if you keep working. The comparison really doesn’t seem to work.