3 ms·

You asked 2 questions in a system made for 1 question at a time. Split these up and Siri answers them fine. You’re holding it wrong.

a_wild_dandan 1y ago
"You haven't contorted your comically simple query enough to make the brittle tool work. Throw the chicken bones better next time."
- al_borland 1y ago
  It’s been this way for over a decade. If someone hasn’t figured it out by now, that’s kind of on them. I’m not even sure why those two things would be asked as a single question. It seems like a very unnatural way to pose those two questions. Most humans would trip on that, especially if it was asked verbally.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    > It seems like a very unnatural way to pose those two questions. Most humans would trip on that I'd assume GP only gave an example. As a pretty frequent user, I can unfortunately only confirm that Siri trips over almost every multi-part question. This would be forgivable if there weren't multiple voice-based AI consumer products available that can handle these kinds of requests perfectly.
    - al_borland 1y ago
      And Apple has integrated one of them, ChatGPT, to do just that. If they wanted an LLM answer they could have got one. They went out of their way just to take shots at Apple.
      - lxgr 1y ago
        I can’t talk to ChatGPT hands-free on my Apple devices, but I can to ChatGPT. Besides that, many people don’t install any apps, and Apple not pre-installing a reasonable LLM to cater to that market just seems incredibly out of character. And there’s enough credible reporting and personnel reshuffling happening to suggest that it’s not available yet because they failed to make it work, not because they didn’t try.
  - sxg 1y ago
    OP isn't asking how to use Siri to do his contrived task. OP is saying that Siri in 2025 should be able to handle that relatively simple albeit contrived task.
CamperBob2 1y ago
Never mind that Infocom games running on my Apple ][+ could handle that sort of command in 1983. (Well, with multiple direct objects, anyway.)
jamesrcole 1y ago
A tool that can handle more than one question at a time is useful. Modern LLMs handle that with ease. So it's completely reasonable to be critical of that limitation.
- al_borland 1y ago
  Sure, what’s not reasonable is expecting Siri to be a modern LLM, when they know it’s not. They asked a question they knew Siri couldn’t handle just to slam it. I’m not critical of a 5-function calculator for not one-shotting complex equations like a computer. While Siri only does one thing at a time, I trust the answer more, because it’s doing the actual math and not just guessing what the most likely answer is, like an LLM. We need to pick the right tool for the right job. Frankly, I don’t think an LLM is the right tool for conversations like this, and jumbling multiple questions into a single question is something people do with LLMs to get more use out of them during the day, this is an adaptation to a limitation of the free tier (and sometimes speed) of the LLM.
  - stogot 1y ago
    It’s not unreasonable Amazon already reworked Alexa to be backed by a LLM months ago, and they were delayed doing it. You’re telling me that Apple isn’t capable of the same to Siri?
    - al_borland 1y ago
      The unreasonable part is acting like Siri got its big LLM update, when they know it didn’t. Just like it would be unreasonable to expect any famously delayed, or unannounced, feature to magically start happening. Amazon just needs a generic LLM. Apple, from the sound of it, is trying to create deep integration with the OS and on-device data. That’s a different problem to solve. They also seem to be trying to do it while respecting user privacy, which is someone most other companies ignore. I don’t see what the big deal is. I’d rather wait for something good than have them rush out a half-ass “me too” chatbot, that is indistinguishable from the dozens of other chatbots I can simply download as an app for that. If we believe what Craig Federighi said, they had something, it just wasn’t up to their standards when talking about rolling it out to a billion devices. Which is fair, I run into bad data from ChatGPT and other LLMs all the time. Letting it mature a little more is not a bad thing. ChatGPT spent a couple months getting my dad pumped up for an elective open heart surgery; he was almost arrogant going into it about how the recovery would go, thinking ChatGPT gave him all the info he could possibly need and a balanced view of reality. Reality hit him pretty hard in the ICU. He sent me some of the chats he had, it was a lot of mutual ego stroking. He was using ChatGPT to downplay the negatives from the doctors and boosting the positives. While it’s good to feel confident, I think it went too far. I spent the whole week in the hospital trying to pull him out of his depression and recalibrating the unrealistic expectations that ChatGPT reinforced. I hope Apple finds a way to be more responsible. If that takes time, great.
hn_go_brrrrr 1y ago
"holding it wrong" was exactly the right phrase given how that phrase was used with the iPhone antenna bridging problem. This is an Apple product failing.

a_wild_dandan 1y ago

"You haven't contorted your comically simple query enough to make the brittle tool work. Throw the chicken bones better next time."

al_borland 1y ago
It’s been this way for over a decade. If someone hasn’t figured it out by now, that’s kind of on them. I’m not even sure why those two things would be asked as a single question. It seems like a very unnatural way to pose those two questions. Most humans would trip on that, especially if it was asked verbally.
- lxgr 1y ago
  > It seems like a very unnatural way to pose those two questions. Most humans would trip on that I'd assume GP only gave an example. As a pretty frequent user, I can unfortunately only confirm that Siri trips over almost every multi-part question. This would be forgivable if there weren't multiple voice-based AI consumer products available that can handle these kinds of requests perfectly.
  - al_borland 1y ago
    And Apple has integrated one of them, ChatGPT, to do just that. If they wanted an LLM answer they could have got one. They went out of their way just to take shots at Apple.
    - lxgr 1y ago
      I can’t talk to ChatGPT hands-free on my Apple devices, but I can to ChatGPT. Besides that, many people don’t install any apps, and Apple not pre-installing a reasonable LLM to cater to that market just seems incredibly out of character. And there’s enough credible reporting and personnel reshuffling happening to suggest that it’s not available yet because they failed to make it work, not because they didn’t try.
- sxg 1y ago
  OP isn't asking how to use Siri to do his contrived task. OP is saying that Siri in 2025 should be able to handle that relatively simple albeit contrived task.

CamperBob2 1y ago

Never mind that Infocom games running on my Apple ][+ could handle that sort of command in 1983. (Well, with multiple direct objects, anyway.)

jamesrcole 1y ago

A tool that can handle more than one question at a time is useful. Modern LLMs handle that with ease. So it's completely reasonable to be critical of that limitation.

al_borland 1y ago
Sure, what’s not reasonable is expecting Siri to be a modern LLM, when they know it’s not. They asked a question they knew Siri couldn’t handle just to slam it. I’m not critical of a 5-function calculator for not one-shotting complex equations like a computer. While Siri only does one thing at a time, I trust the answer more, because it’s doing the actual math and not just guessing what the most likely answer is, like an LLM. We need to pick the right tool for the right job. Frankly, I don’t think an LLM is the right tool for conversations like this, and jumbling multiple questions into a single question is something people do with LLMs to get more use out of them during the day, this is an adaptation to a limitation of the free tier (and sometimes speed) of the LLM.
- stogot 1y ago
  It’s not unreasonable Amazon already reworked Alexa to be backed by a LLM months ago, and they were delayed doing it. You’re telling me that Apple isn’t capable of the same to Siri?
  - al_borland 1y ago
    The unreasonable part is acting like Siri got its big LLM update, when they know it didn’t. Just like it would be unreasonable to expect any famously delayed, or unannounced, feature to magically start happening. Amazon just needs a generic LLM. Apple, from the sound of it, is trying to create deep integration with the OS and on-device data. That’s a different problem to solve. They also seem to be trying to do it while respecting user privacy, which is someone most other companies ignore. I don’t see what the big deal is. I’d rather wait for something good than have them rush out a half-ass “me too” chatbot, that is indistinguishable from the dozens of other chatbots I can simply download as an app for that. If we believe what Craig Federighi said, they had something, it just wasn’t up to their standards when talking about rolling it out to a billion devices. Which is fair, I run into bad data from ChatGPT and other LLMs all the time. Letting it mature a little more is not a bad thing. ChatGPT spent a couple months getting my dad pumped up for an elective open heart surgery; he was almost arrogant going into it about how the recovery would go, thinking ChatGPT gave him all the info he could possibly need and a balanced view of reality. Reality hit him pretty hard in the ICU. He sent me some of the chats he had, it was a lot of mutual ego stroking. He was using ChatGPT to downplay the negatives from the doctors and boosting the positives. While it’s good to feel confident, I think it went too far. I spent the whole week in the hospital trying to pull him out of his depression and recalibrating the unrealistic expectations that ChatGPT reinforced. I hope Apple finds a way to be more responsible. If that takes time, great.

hn_go_brrrrr 1y ago

"holding it wrong" was exactly the right phrase given how that phrase was used with the iPhone antenna bridging problem. This is an Apple product failing.