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Well, 25% stopped apparently. Which is somewhat telling. If you gave me a $basicIncome raise I’d keep working; but I’d appreciate the cash. If you guaranteed

Well, 25% stopped apparently. Which is somewhat telling. If you gave me a $basicIncome raise I’d keep working; but I’d appreciate the cash. If you guaranteed $basicIncome for life I’d restructure my life around that, and likely FIRE.

t-writescode 1y ago
What would you do in your retirement? Loaf? Volunteer? Make art? Two of those are “work”
- atomicnumber3 1y ago
  He's do the only thing we're definitely here to do. Live.
- appreciatorBus 1y ago
  There are plenty of ways to volunteer or do art that are indistinguishable from loafing. Even if you work hard at volunteering or art, if the result isn't useful to others, at some point we will start wondering who is going to grow food and do plumbing while everyone is volunteering & arting.
  - throaway955 1y ago
    presumably people who don't like volunteering and arting, and do like working with their hands on concrete problems that directly affect peoples lives
    - ghiculescu 1y ago
      You think there would be lots of volunteer garbage collectors?
      - throaway955 1y ago
        ...pay them to do it? gp said "plumbing" not "the worst jobs we couldn't get people to do for free."
        ghiculescu 1y ago
        So basically we are going to pay people to not work, and then pay them even more to still work.
        throaway955 1y ago
        do you have some kind of evidence that enacting a ubi, which comes with absolutely no condition of "not working," will stop a majority of people from taking paid work and making more money? Do we need 100% of the population to work in order to fill vital positions? I don't think so.
        ghiculescu 1y ago
        Yeah, the article we are commenting on + most comments here are the evidence
        throaway955 1y ago
        The article said 3/4 of people kept working, a significant portion of the 1/4 went back to school, and a hell of a a lot of people are in this comment section saying they would never stop working even with UBI.
        wat10000 1y ago
        Exactly. Instead of a floor of $0 and you earn more than that by working, you have a floor of $1,000/month or whatever, and you earn more than that by working. The idea is to provide a cushion, not replace wages.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
pxc 1y ago
> Well, 25% stopped apparently. Which is somewhat telling. The report also says that half of those who stopped working went back to school! So that's no more than 13% who really became "idle". And there are also questions we should ask about that group, like their age composition, for instance. If of the 13% that quit working without returning to education or training, many of them were older people, wouldn't that meaningfully change the picture as well?
dumbledoren 1y ago
Aside from half of those who stopped working going back to school, there is a simple reason why a lot of people will stop for a while when universal income or a similar scheme first starts: People are burned out. They are overworked. Over-stressed. Most of them were just hurled into careers by the system without much choice because they had to make a living. Most of them didnt even have time to think about their choices. A majority has spent decades struggling for survival amidst financial insecurity. When universal income starts for the first time, all of these people will stop for a while and start revising their lives. Something which they needed to do way before, but were not allowed by the system. Its natural. When they get over the burnout and do their reflection, they will go active again. We see this in the case of the privileged minority who are able to retire early or take sabbaticals. They rest and do random stuff for a while, then they go back to doing something they want to do. Especially in tech, that has been the case. People dont like staying idle for long.
ropable 1y ago
I bet you wouldn't, at least not until your 70s. Here's my anecdote-based argument to the contrary: every single recent retiree I know (having $basicIncome as a pension) has taken 6-12 months off work and then started working again (where they are physically capable of doing so). The reasons vary from necessity, boredom or wanting to feel "useful". This seems to drop off sharply the mid-70s. I'm not saying that working is hardwired in humans, but it seems to be a strong part of our sense of self-worth.

t-writescode 1y ago

What would you do in your retirement? Loaf? Volunteer? Make art? Two of those are “work”

atomicnumber3 1y ago
He's do the only thing we're definitely here to do. Live.
appreciatorBus 1y ago
There are plenty of ways to volunteer or do art that are indistinguishable from loafing. Even if you work hard at volunteering or art, if the result isn't useful to others, at some point we will start wondering who is going to grow food and do plumbing while everyone is volunteering & arting.
- throaway955 1y ago
  presumably people who don't like volunteering and arting, and do like working with their hands on concrete problems that directly affect peoples lives
  - ghiculescu 1y ago
    You think there would be lots of volunteer garbage collectors?
    - throaway955 1y ago
      ...pay them to do it? gp said "plumbing" not "the worst jobs we couldn't get people to do for free."
      - ghiculescu 1y ago
        So basically we are going to pay people to not work, and then pay them even more to still work.
        throaway955 1y ago
        do you have some kind of evidence that enacting a ubi, which comes with absolutely no condition of "not working," will stop a majority of people from taking paid work and making more money? Do we need 100% of the population to work in order to fill vital positions? I don't think so.
        ghiculescu 1y ago
        Yeah, the article we are commenting on + most comments here are the evidence
        throaway955 1y ago
        The article said 3/4 of people kept working, a significant portion of the 1/4 went back to school, and a hell of a a lot of people are in this comment section saying they would never stop working even with UBI.
        wat10000 1y ago
        Exactly. Instead of a floor of $0 and you earn more than that by working, you have a floor of $1,000/month or whatever, and you earn more than that by working. The idea is to provide a cushion, not replace wages.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]

pxc 1y ago

> Well, 25% stopped apparently. Which is somewhat telling. The report also says that half of those who stopped working went back to school! So that's no more than 13% who really became "idle". And there are also questions we should ask about that group, like their age composition, for instance. If of the 13% that quit working without returning to education or training, many of them were older people, wouldn't that meaningfully change the picture as well?

dumbledoren 1y ago

Aside from half of those who stopped working going back to school, there is a simple reason why a lot of people will stop for a while when universal income or a similar scheme first starts: People are burned out. They are overworked. Over-stressed. Most of them were just hurled into careers by the system without much choice because they had to make a living. Most of them didnt even have time to think about their choices. A majority has spent decades struggling for survival amidst financial insecurity. When universal income starts for the first time, all of these people will stop for a while and start revising their lives. Something which they needed to do way before, but were not allowed by the system. Its natural. When they get over the burnout and do their reflection, they will go active again. We see this in the case of the privileged minority who are able to retire early or take sabbaticals. They rest and do random stuff for a while, then they go back to doing something they want to do. Especially in tech, that has been the case. People dont like staying idle for long.

ropable 1y ago

I bet you wouldn't, at least not until your 70s. Here's my anecdote-based argument to the contrary: every single recent retiree I know (having $basicIncome as a pension) has taken 6-12 months off work and then started working again (where they are physically capable of doing so). The reasons vary from necessity, boredom or wanting to feel "useful". This seems to drop off sharply the mid-70s. I'm not saying that working is hardwired in humans, but it seems to be a strong part of our sense of self-worth.