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The application is almost certainly sending off data to Notion without consent, you just wouldn't be able to tell. If a company is willing to do even small pri

The application is almost certainly sending off data to Notion without consent, you just wouldn't be able to tell. If a company is willing to do even small privacy violations, I do not trust them at all. Feel free to run OpenSnitch or LittleSnitch - most apps are opening connections to many domains you won't recognize. Your guess is as good as anyone's what data they're exfiltrating. That is, of course, unless you use more privacy-preserving apps that are typically opensource.

brookst 1y ago
Any evidence for “almost certainly”? That seems a huge leap of faith to build a whole worldview on. Kind of circular, really.
- const_cast 1y ago
  Yes, virtually every commercial application I've ever seen allows exfiltration of data, usually close to all of it, and you agree to it by signing both an EULA and privacy policy. Based off of that, I then assume that other companies are exfiltrating as much data as possible off my devices. I mean, even your car, which, keep in mind, is a multi-tens-of-thousands dollar product, exfiltrates your location, all your texts, all your phone calls, and as much data from your phone as possible. Yes, this is a "leap of faith". I am not bound by a purely evidence-based worldview - I consider that naivety. I do not need strong irrefutable evidence of bad things happening. When people are untrustworthy, I approach them with skepticism in order to protect myself. For example, I have absolutely no proof that the NSA is surveilling SMS and telephony right now. None at all. But I know Prism was a thing. It is safe to assume the NSA is absolutely surveilling SMS and telephony. And, I'm almost always right, in my experience.
  - brookst 1y ago
    Well, I certainly admire the circular reasoning pride movement. I’ll buy a t-shirt if you make one.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      Firstly, I don't believe that you require proof to believe the things you do. Yes, I am calling you a liar. You have noticed patterns, and make assumptions every day. Every functional human being does. I don't need proof that some random man is a mugger to know to put my phone in my pocket and walk quickly at 3 AM. This is what I mean when I say your mentality here is naive - how many times do you need to get mugged to learn? And, secondly, even if you DO require proof, this is an incredibly inefficient way to live. If you require proof for everything, you wouldn't be able to get much done. You'll be sitting around waiting, or searching. Sometimes, it's faster to assume, if your assumption is good.
viraptor 1y ago
That's just entirely based on the "almost certainly" doing all the work. You're complaining about a hypothetical situation. > you just wouldn't be able to tell. You can setup a local web proxy and tell us. Also check the sources since it's an electron app.
- const_cast 1y ago
  I don't use notion, but it would be a fun experiment to install a root CA and see the traffic. It's probably not always this easy. I see many connections on apps using UDP, so who knows how, exactly, they are encoded. The data may also be "encrypted", similar to how Zoom "encrypted" data. That is to say, the data is encrypted, but the private key is on the same server. So, if you MITM, it looks encrypted - but there's no security.
  - benaubin 1y ago
    it's electron so you can just open chromium dev tools and see almost all network activity - im pretty sure this is exposed to everyone in the debug menu. takes seconds. http proxy the rest. (i work at notion and do this all the time to debug)

brookst 1y ago

Any evidence for “almost certainly”? That seems a huge leap of faith to build a whole worldview on. Kind of circular, really.

const_cast 1y ago
Yes, virtually every commercial application I've ever seen allows exfiltration of data, usually close to all of it, and you agree to it by signing both an EULA and privacy policy. Based off of that, I then assume that other companies are exfiltrating as much data as possible off my devices. I mean, even your car, which, keep in mind, is a multi-tens-of-thousands dollar product, exfiltrates your location, all your texts, all your phone calls, and as much data from your phone as possible. Yes, this is a "leap of faith". I am not bound by a purely evidence-based worldview - I consider that naivety. I do not need strong irrefutable evidence of bad things happening. When people are untrustworthy, I approach them with skepticism in order to protect myself. For example, I have absolutely no proof that the NSA is surveilling SMS and telephony right now. None at all. But I know Prism was a thing. It is safe to assume the NSA is absolutely surveilling SMS and telephony. And, I'm almost always right, in my experience.
- brookst 1y ago
  Well, I certainly admire the circular reasoning pride movement. I’ll buy a t-shirt if you make one.
  - const_cast 1y ago
    Firstly, I don't believe that you require proof to believe the things you do. Yes, I am calling you a liar. You have noticed patterns, and make assumptions every day. Every functional human being does. I don't need proof that some random man is a mugger to know to put my phone in my pocket and walk quickly at 3 AM. This is what I mean when I say your mentality here is naive - how many times do you need to get mugged to learn? And, secondly, even if you DO require proof, this is an incredibly inefficient way to live. If you require proof for everything, you wouldn't be able to get much done. You'll be sitting around waiting, or searching. Sometimes, it's faster to assume, if your assumption is good.

viraptor 1y ago

That's just entirely based on the "almost certainly" doing all the work. You're complaining about a hypothetical situation. > you just wouldn't be able to tell. You can setup a local web proxy and tell us. Also check the sources since it's an electron app.

const_cast 1y ago
I don't use notion, but it would be a fun experiment to install a root CA and see the traffic. It's probably not always this easy. I see many connections on apps using UDP, so who knows how, exactly, they are encoded. The data may also be "encrypted", similar to how Zoom "encrypted" data. That is to say, the data is encrypted, but the private key is on the same server. So, if you MITM, it looks encrypted - but there's no security.
- benaubin 1y ago
  it's electron so you can just open chromium dev tools and see almost all network activity - im pretty sure this is exposed to everyone in the debug menu. takes seconds. http proxy the rest. (i work at notion and do this all the time to debug)