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money is not a finite supply. value is often created without taking from others.
by ineedaj0b 1y ago
money is not a finite supply. value is often created without taking from others.
- arrosenberg 1y agoThen why don't the uberwealthy focus on that instead of stealing from the public?
- whatever1 1y agoIf you are hiding them then you did not pay the owed taxes to cover for part of the externalities of your business
- computerthings 1y ago[dead]
- ninetyninenine 1y ago[flagged]
- WalterBright 1y agoYou're using a computer. Somebody created that valuable computer out of dirt and rocks.
- ninetyninenine 1y ago[flagged]
- daedrdev 1y agoYes, the sun bombards us with free energy that all energy on the earth is sourced from, so dont worry about accounting, since we clearly dont have the same amount of wealth as 5000 years ago
- ninetyninenine 1y agoThat energy accumulates as low entropy. The earth is a continuous low entropy reservoir soaking up the energy and continuously generating more complexity via evolution and also via economic progress. That’s how the accounting works out. The reality is energy is neither created or destroyed. It just reaches a non workable state. In terms of balance of physical energy we technically receive the energy then the energy radiates off the earth. We don’t keep the energy. What we do keep is the low entropy. The energy comes forth from the sun in a concentrated beam. We extract the low entropy from the beam into complexity. Over millions of years this complexity accumulates making earth a reservoir of increasing complexity and lowering entropy. The beam of energy from the sun gets all of the low entropy extracted and radiates into space in a non useable form.
- WalterBright 1y agoThere is no particular correlation between value creation and energy consumption. Your theory is likely unique. I could burn a log, releasing a lot of energy, and no value would be created. I could carve a figure into a log and create value.
- nonchalantsui 1y agoYour examples disagree with your initial statement actually. How did you get the log? How did you carve the figure? Both of these require energy consumption, as we aren't at the stage where we are magically planting trees and teleporting them into our workspaces for carving/burning.
- markerz 1y agoBut value creation isn't the point of taxes?
- legitster 1y agoThis is especially true if your wealth comes from capital markets. If I buy a bunch of baseball cards at 1c each and later it turns out that the market values them at $100 each, I never actually "took" money from anyone. Yes it's patently unfair that I got that lucky, but it wasn't necessarily at anyone's expense. Now, when I actually go to sell those cards then I do actually "take" money from someone else, but while those gains are unrealized it's just paper wealth. In such a case it's also not clear who I am "taking" from. The person buying them off of me gave me the money, but you could also say the baseball card company was exploited and lost out on pricing their cards at $100?
- dylan604 1y agoBecause the seller left money on the table during a sale because they misread the room when they set the price does not mean the buyer exploited them.
- ok_dad 1y agocompanies aren't baseball cards, their growth is tied directly to work that the humans in the company do, and they sure are paid for it, but if they were paid a fair share of the company's profits then that increase in share price would evaporate, because the workers would be getting the rewards from the productivity. In other words, you owe taxes on the capital gains because someone is working to make those gains for you.
- legitster 1y ago> their growth is tied directly to work that the humans in the company do They're linked but it's not 1:1. The whole point of a corporation and a value-add economy is to do a force multiplier on the cost of labor. It doesn't matter how hard you work when digging with a shovel, a lazy guy with an excavator will create value faster than you can. The guy providing the excavator is currently keeping the lion's share of the productivity gains, and that's not good. But it's also not quite the same as saying all of the wealth comes from exploitation.
- 1y ago
- diob 1y agoI'm not sure what you mean, do you mean resources aren't finite?
- ok_dad 1y agoValue can be created from nothing, I am sure you can give an example or two, but in general nothing large and valuable is created without the effort of a lot of people together, relying on the societal systems that are funded by taxes. I suggest that you could count on one hand the number of people in the entire history of humanity who could and would hide this kind of wealth who didn't earn it through somehow relying on others and/or society's structure.
- grimblee 1y agoThe planet's ressources are finite though. When you print money, you don't create value, since there's still the same amount of matter being traded around, you just reduce the value of everybody's money. And so you rob everybody.
- jsbg 1y agoYou are conflating money and value. Value is infinite, e.g. compare the world today to 200 years ago. Even relatively poor people live better today than kings did then. Creating value is not the same as printing money.
- ccortes 1y agoWould we live with the same standards today if we had never printed any money?
- jsbg 1y agoarguably we would have better standards because it would mean less spent on wars, which are pure destruction of value
- h2zizzle 1y agoValue is limited to the total possible energy expenditure of the human population and our autonamous/semi-autonamous proxies (tools, domesticated animals, etc.). It would seem practically limitless because of the scale of human industry in comparison to the energy access afforded to us by nature in it's current state, but obviously value drops commensurate with potential expenditure-destroying events. Natural disasters, war, etc. are examples, but so are things like drops in consumer confidence and labor strikes.
- jsbg 1y ago> Value is limited to the total possible energy expenditure of the human population and says who?
- jsbg 1y agoin fact value is created in every transaction: someone sells something for more money than it's worth to them and someone buys the thing for less money than the thing is worth to them (otherwise the transaction would not occur)
- kwk1 1y ago> otherwise the transaction would not occur Doesn't this assume perfect information?
- jsbg 1y agono, how is that relevant? someone has something to sell for $1 that you value more than the $1 in your pocket so you buy it; doesn't matter if someone a block away is selling it for $0.50
- kwk1 1y agoA perception of value depends on an assessment, which requires information. Suppose the thing you thought would provide $1 of value doesn't actually. Edit: concrete example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_(automobile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_(automobile) Edit2: metaphorical example. I have a very valuable bridge to sell you. Just hope the value you receive isn't different than the value you perceive at transaction time. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/I_have_a_bridge_to_sell_you https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/I_have_a_bridge_to_sell_you
- snackbroken 1y ago> value is created in every transaction Lots of transactions actually destroy value, they just do so in a way that externalizes this cost. A good example is advertising: companies are incentivized to dump all available resources into marketing, because those who don't get out-competed by those who do. It is a winner-takes-all game where the strategy that maximizes global value is nowhere close to being a Nash equilibrium. A more extreme example would be hiring someone to go rob a bank. No value is created (lots is destroyed) but both parties to the transaction come out ahead.
- ccortes 1y agoValue “creation” and money supply have nothing to do with each other.