6 ms·

I’ve come to hate Notion with passion because of its abysmal performance, but I still pay for it for my small business. My non-technical employees use it as a d

by untech 1y ago

I’ve come to hate Notion with passion because of its abysmal performance, but I still pay for it for my small business. My non-technical employees use it as a database for clients, tasks, payments etc. I tried to research replacements several times, and still haven’t found anything good. Sometimes I wonder if I should build my own.

seanw444 1y ago
NocoDB perhaps? It's not a document-focused system, but you said they use it more as a database. https://github.com/nocodb/nocodb https://github.com/nocodb/nocodb
baxtr 1y ago
I really like Notion’s information architecture (in particular the top index pages) and its multi-user capability. I tried some other tools like Confluence and Obsidian but like you say, there seems to be no match from a UX perspective. Do I love Notion? Definitely not. Would I change to another tool with the same feature set? Instantly.
- dtkav 1y ago
  If you like Obsidian and want it to be multiplayer you might be interested in Relay [0] (shameless plug). There are also plugins like make.md [1] that are focused more on making the UX feel more like notion. [0] https://relay.md https://relay.md [1] https://github.com/make-md/makemd https://github.com/make-md/makemd
  - nickthesick 1y ago
    Interesting product. What do you use for the backend sync? I see CRDT so I assume Y.js? I’m building a Y.js sync server: https://github.com/nperez0111/teleportal https://github.com/nperez0111/teleportal
    - dtkav 1y ago
      Yeah, we use yjs and a fork of y-sweet [0]. We have a custom-built control plane that allows us to support many different types of relay server configurations (including self hosting, multi-tenant, per-relay, per-document) and optimize for cost. Your project looks cool -- especially sub-document support -- thanks for sharing [0] https://github.com/no-instructions/y-sweet https://github.com/no-instructions/y-sweet
bschne 1y ago
Most intriguing thing in that vein I've seen: https://thymer.com https://thymer.com (haven't used it, am not affiliated, just looked promising in a demo video esp. on performance grounds)
- xamde 1y ago
  Looks like org mode for the masses
- jdvh 1y ago
  Hey thanks for mentioning us! With Thymer we really care about performance, but Thymer is also end-to-end encrypted because we don't want to compromise on privacy. And it's real-time collaborative and offline first. Thymer has optional self-hosting. Then you can upgrade (or not) at your own leisure, or intentionally stick to an older version you like better. Enshittification is a big problem in our industry. We've all been burned by it -- we certainly have -- and being able to opt out of a "new and improved!" version is a real feature. Thymer will also be very extensible. Today we launched our plugin SDK: https://thymer.com/plugins https://thymer.com/plugins and https://github.com/thymerapp/thymer-plugin-sdk/ https://github.com/thymerapp/thymer-plugin-sdk/ with a bunch of examples. With Thymer you will be able to "vibe code" the very simple plugins and with VSCode/Cursor you can make more complex plugins with hot-reload.
tummler 1y ago
Anytype (https://anytype.io https://anytype.io), Appflowy (https://appflowy.com https://appflowy.com)
- __jonas 1y ago
  Do you use Anytype productively? I have it installed but I find it kind of daunting compared to Notion for organizing my notes, it seems to want to be a more abstract kind of 'knowledge management system'. I just opened it again and it popped up a 'What's New' with phrases like 'Relations are now properties' and something about 'types', 'templates', 'sets' and 'queries', I really just want to take notes and organize them in a straightforward hierarchy.
  - bGl2YW5j 1y ago
    These concepts have been copied directly from Notion. I’ve found Anytype to be more streamlined. I’m highly familiar with Notion though, so adapted easily.
    - __jonas 1y ago
      Fair enough, maybe it's the way they are surfaced that makes them hard to parse to me – I may just have to give it another shot
  - tummler 1y ago
    Anytype recently made a significant change to the way certain types of information are categorized and related-- which resulted in the "What's New" note you saw. That's just unfortunate timing on your part and was a one-off change that's long been in the works. Not a regular occurrence. I will say Anytype (and the like) can come off daunting at first, depending on your specific use case. Especially if you're just using it for notes/info/etc, I would recommend not getting too lost in examples and templates. Just make something simple for your purposes using the built-in types. (The "notes" type should suffice for you.) Then as it evolves over time, you can expand and elaborate as needed. But trying to dive straight into the deep end and create some overarching master system right off the bat will definitely leave you feeling overwhelmed and questioning whether it's worth it.
dml2135 1y ago
The performance really is abysmal. I started using it years ago and the change from the early days has been drastic.
major505 1y ago
I used a lot for organizing my personal projects, endup changing to Microsoft Loop for client stuff. And Obsidian for personal stuff.
paul-tharun 1y ago
outline - https://getoutline.com https://getoutline.com is pretty good and you can import all your notion spaces too.
armedgorilla 1y ago
I'm in the same boat. Since they decided to bundle in their AI features with their core product (at only a 30% price increase!), I've been looking for an exist route. But finding a single collaborative text editor + database designer replacement has been difficult.
tekawade 1y ago
There are many suggestions already let me through in one more: Affine : https://affine.pro/ https://affine.pro/ You can self host too if you like. Not all features as Notion but comes very close. Seems more private too compared to Notion. I am also looking for more private and secure Notion alternatives. My company doesn’t allow using Notion. I like templates, tasks, scrum etc. which I use for personal use. But I am reluctant on saving any personal information in it.
jraph 1y ago
> I wonder if I should build my own. Please consider improving one of the existing open source solutions before doing this: XWiki, Nextcloud, wiki.js... There's advanced stuff that already exists and we could use some cooperation to get better instead of another competitor in a crowded space. (I work for XWiki SAS - you can also pay them to build what's missing for you)
wustep 1y ago
Bummer performance is a problem for ya. We've worked on it a ton over the past year or two and generally performance should be much better across the board. Feel free to email me (username @ makenotion.com) if you have example pages that are slow you're willing to share. thanks!

by untech 1y ago

seanw444 1y ago

NocoDB perhaps? It's not a document-focused system, but you said they use it more as a database. https://github.com/nocodb/nocodb https://github.com/nocodb/nocodb

baxtr 1y ago

I really like Notion’s information architecture (in particular the top index pages) and its multi-user capability. I tried some other tools like Confluence and Obsidian but like you say, there seems to be no match from a UX perspective. Do I love Notion? Definitely not. Would I change to another tool with the same feature set? Instantly.

dtkav 1y ago
If you like Obsidian and want it to be multiplayer you might be interested in Relay [0] (shameless plug). There are also plugins like make.md [1] that are focused more on making the UX feel more like notion. [0] https://relay.md https://relay.md [1] https://github.com/make-md/makemd https://github.com/make-md/makemd
- nickthesick 1y ago
  Interesting product. What do you use for the backend sync? I see CRDT so I assume Y.js? I’m building a Y.js sync server: https://github.com/nperez0111/teleportal https://github.com/nperez0111/teleportal
  - dtkav 1y ago
    Yeah, we use yjs and a fork of y-sweet [0]. We have a custom-built control plane that allows us to support many different types of relay server configurations (including self hosting, multi-tenant, per-relay, per-document) and optimize for cost. Your project looks cool -- especially sub-document support -- thanks for sharing [0] https://github.com/no-instructions/y-sweet https://github.com/no-instructions/y-sweet

bschne 1y ago

Most intriguing thing in that vein I've seen: https://thymer.com https://thymer.com (haven't used it, am not affiliated, just looked promising in a demo video esp. on performance grounds)

xamde 1y ago
Looks like org mode for the masses
jdvh 1y ago
Hey thanks for mentioning us! With Thymer we really care about performance, but Thymer is also end-to-end encrypted because we don't want to compromise on privacy. And it's real-time collaborative and offline first. Thymer has optional self-hosting. Then you can upgrade (or not) at your own leisure, or intentionally stick to an older version you like better. Enshittification is a big problem in our industry. We've all been burned by it -- we certainly have -- and being able to opt out of a "new and improved!" version is a real feature. Thymer will also be very extensible. Today we launched our plugin SDK: https://thymer.com/plugins https://thymer.com/plugins and https://github.com/thymerapp/thymer-plugin-sdk/ https://github.com/thymerapp/thymer-plugin-sdk/ with a bunch of examples. With Thymer you will be able to "vibe code" the very simple plugins and with VSCode/Cursor you can make more complex plugins with hot-reload.

tummler 1y ago

Anytype (https://anytype.io https://anytype.io), Appflowy (https://appflowy.com https://appflowy.com)

__jonas 1y ago
Do you use Anytype productively? I have it installed but I find it kind of daunting compared to Notion for organizing my notes, it seems to want to be a more abstract kind of 'knowledge management system'. I just opened it again and it popped up a 'What's New' with phrases like 'Relations are now properties' and something about 'types', 'templates', 'sets' and 'queries', I really just want to take notes and organize them in a straightforward hierarchy.
- bGl2YW5j 1y ago
  These concepts have been copied directly from Notion. I’ve found Anytype to be more streamlined. I’m highly familiar with Notion though, so adapted easily.
  - __jonas 1y ago
    Fair enough, maybe it's the way they are surfaced that makes them hard to parse to me – I may just have to give it another shot
- tummler 1y ago
  Anytype recently made a significant change to the way certain types of information are categorized and related-- which resulted in the "What's New" note you saw. That's just unfortunate timing on your part and was a one-off change that's long been in the works. Not a regular occurrence. I will say Anytype (and the like) can come off daunting at first, depending on your specific use case. Especially if you're just using it for notes/info/etc, I would recommend not getting too lost in examples and templates. Just make something simple for your purposes using the built-in types. (The "notes" type should suffice for you.) Then as it evolves over time, you can expand and elaborate as needed. But trying to dive straight into the deep end and create some overarching master system right off the bat will definitely leave you feeling overwhelmed and questioning whether it's worth it.

dml2135 1y ago

The performance really is abysmal. I started using it years ago and the change from the early days has been drastic.

major505 1y ago

I used a lot for organizing my personal projects, endup changing to Microsoft Loop for client stuff. And Obsidian for personal stuff.

paul-tharun 1y ago

outline - https://getoutline.com https://getoutline.com is pretty good and you can import all your notion spaces too.

armedgorilla 1y ago

I'm in the same boat. Since they decided to bundle in their AI features with their core product (at only a 30% price increase!), I've been looking for an exist route. But finding a single collaborative text editor + database designer replacement has been difficult.

tekawade 1y ago

There are many suggestions already let me through in one more: Affine : https://affine.pro/ https://affine.pro/ You can self host too if you like. Not all features as Notion but comes very close. Seems more private too compared to Notion. I am also looking for more private and secure Notion alternatives. My company doesn’t allow using Notion. I like templates, tasks, scrum etc. which I use for personal use. But I am reluctant on saving any personal information in it.

jraph 1y ago

> I wonder if I should build my own. Please consider improving one of the existing open source solutions before doing this: XWiki, Nextcloud, wiki.js... There's advanced stuff that already exists and we could use some cooperation to get better instead of another competitor in a crowded space. (I work for XWiki SAS - you can also pay them to build what's missing for you)

wustep 1y ago

Bummer performance is a problem for ya. We've worked on it a ton over the past year or two and generally performance should be much better across the board. Feel free to email me (username @ makenotion.com) if you have example pages that are slow you're willing to share. thanks!