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I’m always (naively) surprised that these sites continue to contain new finds like this. I always assume they've been fully mapped and searched.

eth0up 1y ago
Man, there's so much left to discover! South America, Turkiye, who knows, but so much. One fascinating site not getting much attention is Zernaki Tepe, near the Van region. Some of it, if I've not confused it with something nearby, is buried under 40ft of sediment and its accessible parts exhibit some of the finest masonry work yet seen, with interlocking blocks, etc. Estimated at 14k years, and probably older than Gobekli Tepe
- AlotOfReading 1y ago
  Zernaki Tepe is obviously not from 14k BP. It's a grid plan urban center with aramaic inscriptions and thrown potsherds that use slip. I also can't find any papers actually arguing that it might be anywhere near that old, only some vastly more reasonable iron age dates. What are you looking at that indicates otherwise?
  - eth0up 1y ago
    I'll have to bow a bit in shame. I was introduced to that site through rogue archeologists that differ with official consensus. Additionally, the surrounding sites nearby convolute my ignorance. That said, while I can't readily disgorge quality references on this area, I suspect we'll soon have some compelling arguments that unsettle current consensus. I apologize for introducing an otherwise fascinating archeological discovery with feeble or possibly garbage data. And I hope it does not discourage anyone from remaining up to date on this area or actively pursuing it.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- bsoles 1y ago
  It is funny; "karakol" in Turkish means a police office/building. I wonder is there is a link in the etymology?
BurningFrog 1y ago
My impression is that archeologists are drowning in way more ancient sites than they can possibly investigate. For example, these thousands of unexpected ancient sites they've found in the Amazon using Lidar recently: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/feb/06/ancient-garden-cities-amazon-indigenous-technologies-archaeology-lost-civilisations-environment-terra-preta https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/feb/06/a... One unfortunate reality is that looters will get to these places long before archeologists. I think they try to keep things secret, but there are limits to what you can do. I think this is where a few humble billionaires can make a real difference, in case they're reading this :)
- hobs 1y ago
  Correct, most archeology digs take decades because A) its hard work and you have to do it very precisely (and also we're always inventing new tech and wondering how to keep stuff in the ground) and B) There's very little money funding it - active digs might be a few weeks a year in the best of cases, and the rest of the time just trying to get money to pay the grad students basically nothing to help.
- Rebelgecko 1y ago
  When I've gone down the Wikipedia article of ancient sites, it's amazing how many have basically been visited for 2-3 summers by a professor and some grad students, with years or even decades between visits due to funding issues or whatever
  - AlotOfReading 1y ago
    To say archaeology has shoestring budgets would be insulting to shoestrings. When I was working as a field archaeologist, I would do expeditions on less than what I make in a month working in tech. There were times when I had to seriously consider the financial trade-off between the food budget and sample dating. The financial situation is even worse today.
- Vaslo 1y ago
  Bouncing off your point - I was at the Great Wall and someone told us that after the need for the wall disappeared, villagers were looting bricks from the wall to build the things they needed until the government stepped in to stop it
Vaslo 1y ago
Same - it’s like when I was kid and thought we had visited every planet but meanwhile we’ve only been to the moon a few times.
protocolture 1y ago
After watching >9000 hours of time team the impression I get is that they tend to take what they believe is a representative sample of a site, and leave the rest for future teams. Time Team would often go "This site has been dug before BUT we get to put our pits down in this untouched area" or "OMG Totally new site but we dont want to wreck it for the next guys" Etc etc/
- colechristensen 1y ago
  Modern archaeology intentionally leaves some significant pristine area to preserve the site for the future, perhaps future methods, perhaps just to leave some stones unturned forever. It's a pretty easy conclusion to arrive at given glaring mistakes of archaeology past.
  - divbzero 1y ago
    That’s a wonderfully responsible approach to archaeology. I hope we continue practicing those lessons learned from past mistakes.
pc_edwin 1y ago
tip of the iceberg.. There is a lot to cover and almost all of it is well hidden. Biggest culprits being the Ocean and dense unreachable forests.. Also there is the constant of change/time which has erased the vast majority of the past.
fuzzfactor 1y ago
These are major breakthroughs. Looks to me like this couple is making progress over the long term that few individuals would be able to match. And now getting it right after 40 years by concentrating on things that you just can't expect to be within reach after only 30 years or so. Some of the most admirable type of research that most people are ever going to see.

eth0up 1y ago

Man, there's so much left to discover! South America, Turkiye, who knows, but so much. One fascinating site not getting much attention is Zernaki Tepe, near the Van region. Some of it, if I've not confused it with something nearby, is buried under 40ft of sediment and its accessible parts exhibit some of the finest masonry work yet seen, with interlocking blocks, etc. Estimated at 14k years, and probably older than Gobekli Tepe

AlotOfReading 1y ago
Zernaki Tepe is obviously not from 14k BP. It's a grid plan urban center with aramaic inscriptions and thrown potsherds that use slip. I also can't find any papers actually arguing that it might be anywhere near that old, only some vastly more reasonable iron age dates. What are you looking at that indicates otherwise?
- eth0up 1y ago
  I'll have to bow a bit in shame. I was introduced to that site through rogue archeologists that differ with official consensus. Additionally, the surrounding sites nearby convolute my ignorance. That said, while I can't readily disgorge quality references on this area, I suspect we'll soon have some compelling arguments that unsettle current consensus. I apologize for introducing an otherwise fascinating archeological discovery with feeble or possibly garbage data. And I hope it does not discourage anyone from remaining up to date on this area or actively pursuing it.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
bsoles 1y ago
It is funny; "karakol" in Turkish means a police office/building. I wonder is there is a link in the etymology?

BurningFrog 1y ago

My impression is that archeologists are drowning in way more ancient sites than they can possibly investigate. For example, these thousands of unexpected ancient sites they've found in the Amazon using Lidar recently: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/feb/06/ancient-garden-cities-amazon-indigenous-technologies-archaeology-lost-civilisations-environment-terra-preta https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/feb/06/a... One unfortunate reality is that looters will get to these places long before archeologists. I think they try to keep things secret, but there are limits to what you can do. I think this is where a few humble billionaires can make a real difference, in case they're reading this :)

hobs 1y ago
Correct, most archeology digs take decades because A) its hard work and you have to do it very precisely (and also we're always inventing new tech and wondering how to keep stuff in the ground) and B) There's very little money funding it - active digs might be a few weeks a year in the best of cases, and the rest of the time just trying to get money to pay the grad students basically nothing to help.
Rebelgecko 1y ago
When I've gone down the Wikipedia article of ancient sites, it's amazing how many have basically been visited for 2-3 summers by a professor and some grad students, with years or even decades between visits due to funding issues or whatever
- AlotOfReading 1y ago
  To say archaeology has shoestring budgets would be insulting to shoestrings. When I was working as a field archaeologist, I would do expeditions on less than what I make in a month working in tech. There were times when I had to seriously consider the financial trade-off between the food budget and sample dating. The financial situation is even worse today.
Vaslo 1y ago
Bouncing off your point - I was at the Great Wall and someone told us that after the need for the wall disappeared, villagers were looting bricks from the wall to build the things they needed until the government stepped in to stop it

Vaslo 1y ago

Same - it’s like when I was kid and thought we had visited every planet but meanwhile we’ve only been to the moon a few times.

protocolture 1y ago

After watching >9000 hours of time team the impression I get is that they tend to take what they believe is a representative sample of a site, and leave the rest for future teams. Time Team would often go "This site has been dug before BUT we get to put our pits down in this untouched area" or "OMG Totally new site but we dont want to wreck it for the next guys" Etc etc/

colechristensen 1y ago
Modern archaeology intentionally leaves some significant pristine area to preserve the site for the future, perhaps future methods, perhaps just to leave some stones unturned forever. It's a pretty easy conclusion to arrive at given glaring mistakes of archaeology past.
- divbzero 1y ago
  That’s a wonderfully responsible approach to archaeology. I hope we continue practicing those lessons learned from past mistakes.

pc_edwin 1y ago

tip of the iceberg.. There is a lot to cover and almost all of it is well hidden. Biggest culprits being the Ocean and dense unreachable forests.. Also there is the constant of change/time which has erased the vast majority of the past.

fuzzfactor 1y ago

These are major breakthroughs. Looks to me like this couple is making progress over the long term that few individuals would be able to match. And now getting it right after 40 years by concentrating on things that you just can't expect to be within reach after only 30 years or so. Some of the most admirable type of research that most people are ever going to see.