4 ms·

No files, no ownership, all hail our cloud overlords

FinnKuhn 1y ago
The author is not against files, but against sharing files. You can't control what the person does with it or who they share it with. For all I know they are just uploading it straight to ChatGPT. Therefore sharing files is loosing ownership. On the other hand just because something is in a cloud doesn't mean it isn't yours. It can also be in your own self-hosted cloud.
- nullwarp 1y ago
  To be fair you can't really control that either. Nothing stops someone from just copy and pasting or taking a screenshot of the data.
  - CaptainFever 1y ago
    Or, even if somehow all digital attempts are blocked (e.g. DRM), they can just take a picture and run OCR on it. See also: analog hole
- dirkc 1y ago
  If the other party has read access you can't prevent them from reproducing/sharing it. You can make it cumbersome, but not impossible.
  - FinnKuhn 1y ago
    That is correct, but putting a hurdle like this into place will stop the majority of people that don't know what they are doing and are just going to upload your sensible data to all sorts of places.
    - CaptainFever 1y ago
      Most people know how to screenshot or take a picture. Similarly, these kinds of measures ("it'll make it harder which is better than nothing") usually just ends up annoying legitimate users while not providing any actual security.
    - bccdee 1y ago
      We're talking about Google Docs. Ctrl-A Ctrl-C takes moments, even in read-only mode. Sure, some hypothetical technology may be able to prevent this, but that's just not how people share documents online right now.
- grvdrm 1y ago
  I’d argue it’s basically impossible to control usage no matter what. Example: screenshot. Now toss it in ChatGPT or tool of your choice and ask it to extract the content.
- ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
  > You can't control what the person does with it or who they share it with. For all I know they are just uploading it straight to ChatGPT. Therefore sharing files is loosing ownership. Maybe they are feeding it into a screenreader or a local LLM because that is what works for them, or because they suffer from challenges you aren't aware of and don't need to be. You still have the same "ownership" of any files on your computer and data within, from a legal perspective. What you are talking about isn't ownership, it's control. Control to hamper others' usage of data which they're already allowed to access. That desire for technical control is an exercise in futility: If I wanted to share a piece of sensitive info, aside from copying it via a number of technical means, I can just talk to someone in person and say "I saw...", or perhaps a malicious actor will hack my computer and gain access to it via screenshots, packet captures, arbitrary logging, etc. Thus, if you don't trust me to secure the contents of a file (whether due to incompetence or malice), and aren't willing to risk it, don't send it to me. Most people in the world don't send me their files, and I'm ok with that. Alternatively, and also common, is to send the file to people who are contractually bound to use it in accordance with a set of terms. For example: an employment contract; or a partnership agreement.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

The author is not against files, but against sharing files. You can't control what the person does with it or who they share it with. For all I know they are just uploading it straight to ChatGPT. Therefore sharing files is loosing ownership. On the other hand just because something is in a cloud doesn't mean it isn't yours. It can also be in your own self-hosted cloud.

nullwarp 1y ago
To be fair you can't really control that either. Nothing stops someone from just copy and pasting or taking a screenshot of the data.
- CaptainFever 1y ago
  Or, even if somehow all digital attempts are blocked (e.g. DRM), they can just take a picture and run OCR on it. See also: analog hole
dirkc 1y ago
If the other party has read access you can't prevent them from reproducing/sharing it. You can make it cumbersome, but not impossible.
- FinnKuhn 1y ago
  That is correct, but putting a hurdle like this into place will stop the majority of people that don't know what they are doing and are just going to upload your sensible data to all sorts of places.
  - CaptainFever 1y ago
    Most people know how to screenshot or take a picture. Similarly, these kinds of measures ("it'll make it harder which is better than nothing") usually just ends up annoying legitimate users while not providing any actual security.
  - bccdee 1y ago
    We're talking about Google Docs. Ctrl-A Ctrl-C takes moments, even in read-only mode. Sure, some hypothetical technology may be able to prevent this, but that's just not how people share documents online right now.
grvdrm 1y ago
I’d argue it’s basically impossible to control usage no matter what. Example: screenshot. Now toss it in ChatGPT or tool of your choice and ask it to extract the content.
ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
> You can't control what the person does with it or who they share it with. For all I know they are just uploading it straight to ChatGPT. Therefore sharing files is loosing ownership. Maybe they are feeding it into a screenreader or a local LLM because that is what works for them, or because they suffer from challenges you aren't aware of and don't need to be. You still have the same "ownership" of any files on your computer and data within, from a legal perspective. What you are talking about isn't ownership, it's control. Control to hamper others' usage of data which they're already allowed to access. That desire for technical control is an exercise in futility: If I wanted to share a piece of sensitive info, aside from copying it via a number of technical means, I can just talk to someone in person and say "I saw...", or perhaps a malicious actor will hack my computer and gain access to it via screenshots, packet captures, arbitrary logging, etc. Thus, if you don't trust me to secure the contents of a file (whether due to incompetence or malice), and aren't willing to risk it, don't send it to me. Most people in the world don't send me their files, and I'm ok with that. Alternatively, and also common, is to send the file to people who are contractually bound to use it in accordance with a set of terms. For example: an employment contract; or a partnership agreement.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]