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> Either allow us to process and use your data however we want, or disable these existing features we've offered for many years That's not an accurate descript

by jsnell 1y ago

> Either allow us to process and use your data however we want, or disable these existing features we've offered for many years That's not an accurate description. It's not "however they want", it's pretty clearly scoped for the data being used across Workspace apps. > such a great direction to take your service Also, none of this is new. That setting has been around to control exactly those features for years[0]. It's off by default in some countries, on by default in others, depending on the local laws/regulations. [0] Here's the archived documentation for the setting from 2021, https://web.archive.org/web/20210223060113/https://support.google.com/a/answer/10095404 https://web.archive.org/web/20210223060113/https://support.g...

ddalex 1y ago
it's like the publisher wants to manufacture some outrage
- dal 1y ago
  They need to drive traffic to the dying bluesky thing somehow.
diggan 1y ago
It's new in the way that I couldn't proceed to use gmail web interface unless I made a choice. And the documentation link made it clear they won't just use the data between Workspace apps, it's for "improving the services for everyone" and "selected" 3rd parties. Features I used to be able to use yesterday are no longer possible to use without agreeing to that new data sharing, it seems
- jsnell 1y ago
  You're in the EU, right? In that case these features have been off by default for years (I posted a link to the 2021 documentation showing that, but I'm 95% sure it was already the case pre-Covid). If you've been using these features for years, it kind of suggests you'd already consented to exactly this level of data use before, and just forgot about it. What's the documentation link?
  - diggan 1y ago
    > You're in the EU, right? Yes. > If you've been using these features for years I haven't agreed to any of those features explicitly, the thing with flights/reservations appearing in Google Calendar has been a feature for years and don't recall that needing an explicit agreement that Google can use that same data for improving other Google services. It wasn't until today (it seems) they asked for explicit permission for that. > What's the documentation link? I think it was linking to https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15604322 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15604322 but can't confirm 100% since I can't see that modal anymore.
    - jsnell 1y ago
      I'm pretty sure what's happened is that you'd agreed to it and forgotten. These features were very explicitly turned off in the EU half a decade ago, and all European users had to make an explicit decision of whether to opt in or not via exactly this kind of modal consent dialog. > I think it was linking to https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15604322 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15604322 but can't confirm 100% since I can't see that modal anymore. Fair. But I don't think that page is saying what you originally said it did. They're not asking for consent for using data for product improvements or sharing with third parties. Consent is the stated legal basis for using the data for providing the features. Legitimate interest is the basis for using the data for product improvements. I can see no claim about data being shared with third parties.
      - diggan 1y ago
        > European users had to make an explicit decision of whether to opt in or not via exactly this kind of modal consent dialog. Ok, lets assume I did accept it (or not), then why ask again? Clearly something has changed, otherwise they'd just use my previous consent (or lack of). > They're not asking for consent for using data for product improvements My reading of that is that they are, some highlights you might have missed: > > When smart features are on, your data may be used to improve these features [...] To improve our services. If you have turned on any of the smart features settings, we may also process your Workspace Content & Activity to improve these features. [...] Developing new products and features [...] Performing research That basically says they can use the data as long as it ends up being used for a new product/feature, which can essentially be anything.
BlackFly 1y ago
Its apparently a false dichotomy of "Allow Gemini access to your data" or "Disable display of email events in calendar". Although maybe under the hood they were always using ML and the new ML algorithm is an LLM...
oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
> depending on the local laws/regulations Don’t be ~~evil~~ any more evil than the law lets you get away with

by jsnell 1y ago

ddalex 1y ago

it's like the publisher wants to manufacture some outrage

dal 1y ago
They need to drive traffic to the dying bluesky thing somehow.

diggan 1y ago

It's new in the way that I couldn't proceed to use gmail web interface unless I made a choice. And the documentation link made it clear they won't just use the data between Workspace apps, it's for "improving the services for everyone" and "selected" 3rd parties. Features I used to be able to use yesterday are no longer possible to use without agreeing to that new data sharing, it seems

jsnell 1y ago
You're in the EU, right? In that case these features have been off by default for years (I posted a link to the 2021 documentation showing that, but I'm 95% sure it was already the case pre-Covid). If you've been using these features for years, it kind of suggests you'd already consented to exactly this level of data use before, and just forgot about it. What's the documentation link?
- diggan 1y ago
  > You're in the EU, right? Yes. > If you've been using these features for years I haven't agreed to any of those features explicitly, the thing with flights/reservations appearing in Google Calendar has been a feature for years and don't recall that needing an explicit agreement that Google can use that same data for improving other Google services. It wasn't until today (it seems) they asked for explicit permission for that. > What's the documentation link? I think it was linking to https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15604322 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15604322 but can't confirm 100% since I can't see that modal anymore.
  - jsnell 1y ago
    I'm pretty sure what's happened is that you'd agreed to it and forgotten. These features were very explicitly turned off in the EU half a decade ago, and all European users had to make an explicit decision of whether to opt in or not via exactly this kind of modal consent dialog. > I think it was linking to https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15604322 https://support.google.com/mail/answer/15604322 but can't confirm 100% since I can't see that modal anymore. Fair. But I don't think that page is saying what you originally said it did. They're not asking for consent for using data for product improvements or sharing with third parties. Consent is the stated legal basis for using the data for providing the features. Legitimate interest is the basis for using the data for product improvements. I can see no claim about data being shared with third parties.
    - diggan 1y ago
      > European users had to make an explicit decision of whether to opt in or not via exactly this kind of modal consent dialog. Ok, lets assume I did accept it (or not), then why ask again? Clearly something has changed, otherwise they'd just use my previous consent (or lack of). > They're not asking for consent for using data for product improvements My reading of that is that they are, some highlights you might have missed: > > When smart features are on, your data may be used to improve these features [...] To improve our services. If you have turned on any of the smart features settings, we may also process your Workspace Content & Activity to improve these features. [...] Developing new products and features [...] Performing research That basically says they can use the data as long as it ends up being used for a new product/feature, which can essentially be anything.

BlackFly 1y ago

Its apparently a false dichotomy of "Allow Gemini access to your data" or "Disable display of email events in calendar". Although maybe under the hood they were always using ML and the new ML algorithm is an LLM...

oneeyedpigeon 1y ago

> depending on the local laws/regulations Don’t be ~~evil~~ any more evil than the law lets you get away with