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It is very sad to see that in many companies, great engineers are forced to take on management roles to keep progressing in their careers. It seems to be the on

It is very sad to see that in many companies, great engineers are forced to take on management roles to keep progressing in their careers. It seems to be the only path forward in many big companies.

tekla 1y ago
It's so sad to see great engineers limit themselves and refuse to take on large projects because they think that they can't do better.
- esseph 1y ago
  lol Let experts at something be fucking experts. The moment good engineers take their hands off the keyboard, their skills start to quickly drift and degrade. Their experience in many things they were previously an expert on starts to go out of date. The number of roles they can apply to in the future is greatly reduced. "Up or out" is a goddamn cancer
- marcinzm 1y ago
  That’s called Staff engineer and not Manager.
libraryofbabel 1y ago
Huh? The staff+ IC track is well established at many large companies. There are several good books about it: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/the-staff-engineers/9781098118723/ https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/the-staff-engineers/978...
- jaggederest 1y ago
  It's rare that there are actually anywhere near as many roles at the top of the IC pyramid as there are in the people management track, by usually 3x or more. If you want to get promoted to a higher level as an IC, you can compete for one of the maybe 3-5 staff+ spots available from the, say, 50 engineers around you. It's even rarer once you get above staff engineer, to the degree that it's disingenuous when most companies have a career ladder with those positions on it. Or, you can shift to management, and have access to positions that might be as many as 10-15 per 50 engineers if you include middle and upper management. There never seems to be a cap on the number of vice presidents at a larger company. It's unrealistic to just say "Oh continue to be an IC, do good work and take on more responsibility and you'll get a staff position", because there simply aren't the jobs available at most companies for staff, senior staff, or principal engineers. Also, it's often challenging to change companies when you're in those roles - you can't just pop down the street because a significant majority of companies just don't hire those roles externally very often. Contrast with management where being a director of engineering at company A often gives you a solid option on company B or a senior director role at company C.
  - 1024core 1y ago
    You captured my thoughts more eloquently than I could. Thank you!

It is very sad to see that in many companies, great engineers are forced to take on management roles to keep progressing in their careers. It seems to be the only path forward in many big companies.

tekla 1y ago

It's so sad to see great engineers limit themselves and refuse to take on large projects because they think that they can't do better.

esseph 1y ago
lol Let experts at something be fucking experts. The moment good engineers take their hands off the keyboard, their skills start to quickly drift and degrade. Their experience in many things they were previously an expert on starts to go out of date. The number of roles they can apply to in the future is greatly reduced. "Up or out" is a goddamn cancer
marcinzm 1y ago
That’s called Staff engineer and not Manager.

libraryofbabel 1y ago

Huh? The staff+ IC track is well established at many large companies. There are several good books about it: https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/the-staff-engineers/9781098118723/ https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/the-staff-engineers/978...

jaggederest 1y ago
It's rare that there are actually anywhere near as many roles at the top of the IC pyramid as there are in the people management track, by usually 3x or more. If you want to get promoted to a higher level as an IC, you can compete for one of the maybe 3-5 staff+ spots available from the, say, 50 engineers around you. It's even rarer once you get above staff engineer, to the degree that it's disingenuous when most companies have a career ladder with those positions on it. Or, you can shift to management, and have access to positions that might be as many as 10-15 per 50 engineers if you include middle and upper management. There never seems to be a cap on the number of vice presidents at a larger company. It's unrealistic to just say "Oh continue to be an IC, do good work and take on more responsibility and you'll get a staff position", because there simply aren't the jobs available at most companies for staff, senior staff, or principal engineers. Also, it's often challenging to change companies when you're in those roles - you can't just pop down the street because a significant majority of companies just don't hire those roles externally very often. Contrast with management where being a director of engineering at company A often gives you a solid option on company B or a senior director role at company C.
- 1024core 1y ago
  You captured my thoughts more eloquently than I could. Thank you!