8 ms·

Apple loses patent claim against Samsung in Tokyo court

140 points by factorialboy 14y ago

akent 14y ago
Very light on details, anyone got more info?
- gokhan 14y ago
  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/01/technology/in-japan-a-setback-for-apples-patent-fight.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/01/technology/in-japan-a-setb...
  - alokm 14y ago
    Interesting URL it says Sept 1 for a story dated 31 aug. I wonder is it a conservative estimate of the date to take all time zones in consideration.
    - waiwai933 14y ago
      Probably not anything that interesting or considerate. 31 August is the time in Japan right now (as well as Europe and most of the US), so the dateline makes sense. 1 September is the date the story will appear in print, according to the article's footnote. I wouldn't be surprised if the software was focused on the actual newspaper when it was designed, and so the URL will correspond to the actual newspaper (in case of citations, etc.).
  - akent 14y ago
    More text, yes, but not much more detail about the actual patents in question: "an Apple patent on technology that synchronizes music and videos between gadgets and servers."
    - X-Istence 14y ago
      This would mean it isn't the same patents as those that were before the jury in the US ...
      - tharwan 14y ago
        I think this is exactly the case.
- factorialboy 14y ago
  Plenty of sources via Google News: https://news.google.co.in/news/story?q=reuters+japan+apple+samsung&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvnsu&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&biw=1517&bih=760&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=d5y52cdMQakgoBMnCqwITGjUctMYM&sa=X&ei=EHVAUI3hCsHprAfbnoDAAw&ved=0CCwQqgIwAA https://news.google.co.in/news/story?q=reuters+japan+apple+s...
ekianjo 14y ago
There's a serious lack of information in this post. No background, nothing. Is it the same kind of patent claim as the one that Samsung faced in the US?
- factorialboy 14y ago
  Sorry about that. That is a popular Indian general news website, doesn't focus much on technology or legal news. Here's the Reuters India link: http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/apple-samsung-japan-idINDEE87U02J20120831 http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/apple-samsung-japan...
baq 14y ago
apple wins in america. samsung wins in asia. coincidence?
- fchollet 14y ago
  If anything it could be a sign that the US trial was flawed, because believe me, the Japanese don't particularly like (or benefit from the success of) Korean companies.
  - epo 14y ago
    Really? Is this because the same things were being tried in both courts? Or because the Japanese are racist? Or perhaps because the Japanese don't particularly like (or benefit from the success of) Apple? If anything, your comment is nonsense.
    - option_greek 14y ago
      The GP comment makes sense. There is a long standing resentment between Korea and Japan stemming from WWII excesses of Japanese army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule)
      - mcpie 14y ago
        Not to mention they're competitors in most areas of trade... especially IT.
    - metaleks 14y ago
      No, his comment really isn't nonsense. Japan and South Korea have an incredibly poor relationship.
      - snogglethorpe 14y ago
        > Japan and South Korea have an incredibly poor relationship That's a overly simplistic. The relationship between Japan and Korea is very complicated. They have a long history together, and a lot of culture in common. There are certain issues over which there is conflict, and certain classes of people within each country that beat the nationalist drums harder than average, but there's also a lot of mutual admiration, especially among the young. The antagonism won't die down anytime soon, but I'd say the trend is definitely downwards.
oemera 14y ago
It's a shame that a 'article' with so little information makes on the frontpage of HN. These days the headline needs just to name Apple and it is guaranteed to show up on the frontpage. I wonder if someone could write a plugin to just ban all Apple news from HN. Edit: typo.
- ekianjo 14y ago
  Should be pretty easy to write a filter that removes all Apple-related news on HN. That would actually be a cool feature for a HN reader app.
- factorialboy 14y ago
  Sorry for posting a link with very little details. But I think this is a breaking story and needs to be covered. Here are some more sources: https://news.google.co.in/news/story?q=reuters+japan+apple+samsung&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvnsu&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&biw=1517&bih=760&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=d5y52cdMQakgoBMnCqwITGjUctMYM&sa=X&ei=EHVAUI3hCsHprAfbnoDAAw&ved=0CCwQqgIwAA https://news.google.co.in/news/story?q=reuters+japan+apple+s...
- elvisds 14y ago
  I use a chrome extension called HackerNew[1] that lets you do this. Look for 'filters' on the top right of the page, once you have installed it [1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lgoghlndihpmbbgmbpjohilcphbfhddd https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lgoghlndihpmbbgmbp...
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- A1kmm 14y ago
  If you have Greasemonkey: https://lanthaps.com/static/noapple.user.js https://lanthaps.com/static/noapple.user.js
- rimantas 14y ago
  There will be interesting news related to Apple, but all those patent cases should disappear, no matter who is involved. There is very little possibility for a constructive discussion.
veidr 14y ago
It should be noted that in Japan, such cases aren't tried by lay juries. (Actually even for criminal cases, they are only just starting citizen jury trials.) A judge, or panel of judges, decides such cases, and I believe that the ones who try patent cases are, generally speaking, reasonably competent (and thus much less likely to make the incontrovertible errors seen in the recent US Apple-Samsung case).
- sillysaurus 14y ago
  Which errors?
  - veidr 14y ago
    E.g., finding a given Samsung product didn't infringe on Apple's patents, but nevertheless awarding damages for it. Edit: I believe the judge fixed the most egregious errors, but post-verdict interviews with the jury make it seem like they were confused on various different fronts. Here's one link describing some of those problems: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012082510525390 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012082510525390
    - sillysaurus 14y ago
      That doesn't make sense. What happened?
      - kefs 14y ago
        Velvin Hogan happened. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19425052 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19425052
        cdrxndr 14y ago
        Holy crap. Prior art was disregarded because the Apple patented methods couldn't run on the old hardware: >"And in example after example, when we put it to the test, the older prior art was just that. Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error." Wut.
cubsink 14y ago
Japan > USA, nuff said.

140 points by factorialboy 14y ago

akent 14y ago

Very light on details, anyone got more info?

gokhan 14y ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/01/technology/in-japan-a-setback-for-apples-patent-fight.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/01/technology/in-japan-a-setb...
- alokm 14y ago
  Interesting URL it says Sept 1 for a story dated 31 aug. I wonder is it a conservative estimate of the date to take all time zones in consideration.
  - waiwai933 14y ago
    Probably not anything that interesting or considerate. 31 August is the time in Japan right now (as well as Europe and most of the US), so the dateline makes sense. 1 September is the date the story will appear in print, according to the article's footnote. I wouldn't be surprised if the software was focused on the actual newspaper when it was designed, and so the URL will correspond to the actual newspaper (in case of citations, etc.).
- akent 14y ago
  More text, yes, but not much more detail about the actual patents in question: "an Apple patent on technology that synchronizes music and videos between gadgets and servers."
  - X-Istence 14y ago
    This would mean it isn't the same patents as those that were before the jury in the US ...
    - tharwan 14y ago
      I think this is exactly the case.
factorialboy 14y ago
Plenty of sources via Google News: https://news.google.co.in/news/story?q=reuters+japan+apple+samsung&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvnsu&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&biw=1517&bih=760&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=d5y52cdMQakgoBMnCqwITGjUctMYM&sa=X&ei=EHVAUI3hCsHprAfbnoDAAw&ved=0CCwQqgIwAA https://news.google.co.in/news/story?q=reuters+japan+apple+s...

ekianjo 14y ago

There's a serious lack of information in this post. No background, nothing. Is it the same kind of patent claim as the one that Samsung faced in the US?

factorialboy 14y ago
Sorry about that. That is a popular Indian general news website, doesn't focus much on technology or legal news. Here's the Reuters India link: http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/apple-samsung-japan-idINDEE87U02J20120831 http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/apple-samsung-japan...

baq 14y ago

apple wins in america. samsung wins in asia. coincidence?

fchollet 14y ago
If anything it could be a sign that the US trial was flawed, because believe me, the Japanese don't particularly like (or benefit from the success of) Korean companies.
- epo 14y ago
  Really? Is this because the same things were being tried in both courts? Or because the Japanese are racist? Or perhaps because the Japanese don't particularly like (or benefit from the success of) Apple? If anything, your comment is nonsense.
  - option_greek 14y ago
    The GP comment makes sense. There is a long standing resentment between Korea and Japan stemming from WWII excesses of Japanese army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule)
    - mcpie 14y ago
      Not to mention they're competitors in most areas of trade... especially IT.
  - metaleks 14y ago
    No, his comment really isn't nonsense. Japan and South Korea have an incredibly poor relationship.
    - snogglethorpe 14y ago
      > Japan and South Korea have an incredibly poor relationship That's a overly simplistic. The relationship between Japan and Korea is very complicated. They have a long history together, and a lot of culture in common. There are certain issues over which there is conflict, and certain classes of people within each country that beat the nationalist drums harder than average, but there's also a lot of mutual admiration, especially among the young. The antagonism won't die down anytime soon, but I'd say the trend is definitely downwards.

oemera 14y ago

It's a shame that a 'article' with so little information makes on the frontpage of HN. These days the headline needs just to name Apple and it is guaranteed to show up on the frontpage. I wonder if someone could write a plugin to just ban all Apple news from HN. Edit: typo.

ekianjo 14y ago
Should be pretty easy to write a filter that removes all Apple-related news on HN. That would actually be a cool feature for a HN reader app.
factorialboy 14y ago
Sorry for posting a link with very little details. But I think this is a breaking story and needs to be covered. Here are some more sources: https://news.google.co.in/news/story?q=reuters+japan+apple+samsung&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvnsu&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&biw=1517&bih=760&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=d5y52cdMQakgoBMnCqwITGjUctMYM&sa=X&ei=EHVAUI3hCsHprAfbnoDAAw&ved=0CCwQqgIwAA https://news.google.co.in/news/story?q=reuters+japan+apple+s...
elvisds 14y ago
I use a chrome extension called HackerNew[1] that lets you do this. Look for 'filters' on the top right of the page, once you have installed it [1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lgoghlndihpmbbgmbpjohilcphbfhddd https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lgoghlndihpmbbgmbp...
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
A1kmm 14y ago
If you have Greasemonkey: https://lanthaps.com/static/noapple.user.js https://lanthaps.com/static/noapple.user.js
rimantas 14y ago
There will be interesting news related to Apple, but all those patent cases should disappear, no matter who is involved. There is very little possibility for a constructive discussion.

veidr 14y ago

It should be noted that in Japan, such cases aren't tried by lay juries. (Actually even for criminal cases, they are only just starting citizen jury trials.) A judge, or panel of judges, decides such cases, and I believe that the ones who try patent cases are, generally speaking, reasonably competent (and thus much less likely to make the incontrovertible errors seen in the recent US Apple-Samsung case).

sillysaurus 14y ago
Which errors?
- veidr 14y ago
  E.g., finding a given Samsung product didn't infringe on Apple's patents, but nevertheless awarding damages for it. Edit: I believe the judge fixed the most egregious errors, but post-verdict interviews with the jury make it seem like they were confused on various different fronts. Here's one link describing some of those problems: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012082510525390 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012082510525390
  - sillysaurus 14y ago
    That doesn't make sense. What happened?
    - kefs 14y ago
      Velvin Hogan happened. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19425052 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19425052
      - cdrxndr 14y ago
        Holy crap. Prior art was disregarded because the Apple patented methods couldn't run on the old hardware: >"And in example after example, when we put it to the test, the older prior art was just that. Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error." Wut.

cubsink 14y ago

Japan > USA, nuff said.