3 ms·

What are the use cases for this? Are we sure sites are not just going to use it to mine bitcoins using their users' hardware?

popcar2 1y ago
It'll open the door for more ambitious webgames and web apps that use the GPU.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  I keep waiting to see ambitious webgames that could match the experience of Infinity Blade from 2010, used to demo iOS new OpenGL ES 3.0 capabilities, the foundation of WebGL 2.0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Blade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Blade Game demo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2CXudqc6c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2CXudqc6c The only thing I like in Web 3D APIs, is that outside middleware engines, they are the only mainstream 3D APIs designed with managed languages in mind, instead of after the fact bindings. Still waiting for something like RenderDoc on the respective browser developer tools, we never got anything better than SpectorJS. It isn't even printf debugging, rather pixel colour debugging.
  - josephg 1y ago
    They’re also the only 3D APIs designed to safely untrusted code to use your GPU.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Assuming proper drivers, which browser black lists prove otherwise. Hence one of the reasons why it never took off as Flash replacement, and indies rather focused on native mobile games. It is hard to sell an experience, when there is zero control over the hardware acceleration.
andybak 1y ago
Same use cases that native apps have for using a GPU except in a browser? > Are we sure sites are not just going to use it to mine bitcoins using their users' hardware? Some almost certainly will but like all similar issues the game of cat and mouse will continue.
m-schuetz 1y ago
- Streaming point cloud data setsnover web browsers (used by many surveying and construction companies, as well as geospatial government agencies). - Visualize other scan data such as gaussian splat data sets, or triangle meshes from photogrammetry - Things like google earth, Cesium, or other 3D globe viewers. It's a pretty big thing in geospatial sciences and industry.
- kam 1y ago
  What improvements does WebGPU bring vs WebGL for things like Potree?
  - m-schuetz 1y ago
    Compute shaders, which can draw points faster than the native rendering pipeline. Although I have to admit that WebGPU implements things so poorly and restrictive, that this benefit ends up being fairly small. Storage buffers, which come along with compute shaders, are still fantastic from a dev convenience point of view since it allows implementing vertex pulling, which is much nicer to work with than vertex buffers. For gaussian splatting, WebGPU is great since it allows implementing sorting via compute shaders. WebGL-based implementations sort on the CPU, which means "correct" front-to-back blending lags behind for a few frames. But yeah, when you ask like that, it would have been much better if they had simply added compute shaders to WebGL, because other than that there really is no point in WebGPU.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      They did, Intel had the majority of the work done, and then Google sabotaged the effort, because WebGPU was right around the corner. https://registry.khronos.org/webgl/specs/latest/2.0-compute/ https://registry.khronos.org/webgl/specs/latest/2.0-compute/ https://github.com/9ballsyndrome/WebGL_Compute_shader/issues/9 https://github.com/9ballsyndrome/WebGL_Compute_shader/issues...
  - flohofwoe 1y ago
    Access to slightly more recent GPU features (e.g. WebGL2 is stuck on a feature set that was mainstream ca. 2008, while WebGPU is on a feature set that was mainstream ca 2015-ish).
flohofwoe 1y ago
You can already do that in WebGL, WASM or Javascript, thankfully all those technologies are easily ad-blockable.
codedokode 1y ago
Probably primary use will be fingerprinting if WebGPU provides GPU name, libraries info like WebGL does.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

popcar2 1y ago

It'll open the door for more ambitious webgames and web apps that use the GPU.

pjmlp 1y ago
I keep waiting to see ambitious webgames that could match the experience of Infinity Blade from 2010, used to demo iOS new OpenGL ES 3.0 capabilities, the foundation of WebGL 2.0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Blade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Blade Game demo, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2CXudqc6c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w2CXudqc6c The only thing I like in Web 3D APIs, is that outside middleware engines, they are the only mainstream 3D APIs designed with managed languages in mind, instead of after the fact bindings. Still waiting for something like RenderDoc on the respective browser developer tools, we never got anything better than SpectorJS. It isn't even printf debugging, rather pixel colour debugging.
- josephg 1y ago
  They’re also the only 3D APIs designed to safely untrusted code to use your GPU.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Assuming proper drivers, which browser black lists prove otherwise. Hence one of the reasons why it never took off as Flash replacement, and indies rather focused on native mobile games. It is hard to sell an experience, when there is zero control over the hardware acceleration.

andybak 1y ago

Same use cases that native apps have for using a GPU except in a browser? > Are we sure sites are not just going to use it to mine bitcoins using their users' hardware? Some almost certainly will but like all similar issues the game of cat and mouse will continue.

m-schuetz 1y ago

- Streaming point cloud data setsnover web browsers (used by many surveying and construction companies, as well as geospatial government agencies). - Visualize other scan data such as gaussian splat data sets, or triangle meshes from photogrammetry - Things like google earth, Cesium, or other 3D globe viewers. It's a pretty big thing in geospatial sciences and industry.

kam 1y ago
What improvements does WebGPU bring vs WebGL for things like Potree?
- m-schuetz 1y ago
  Compute shaders, which can draw points faster than the native rendering pipeline. Although I have to admit that WebGPU implements things so poorly and restrictive, that this benefit ends up being fairly small. Storage buffers, which come along with compute shaders, are still fantastic from a dev convenience point of view since it allows implementing vertex pulling, which is much nicer to work with than vertex buffers. For gaussian splatting, WebGPU is great since it allows implementing sorting via compute shaders. WebGL-based implementations sort on the CPU, which means "correct" front-to-back blending lags behind for a few frames. But yeah, when you ask like that, it would have been much better if they had simply added compute shaders to WebGL, because other than that there really is no point in WebGPU.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    They did, Intel had the majority of the work done, and then Google sabotaged the effort, because WebGPU was right around the corner. https://registry.khronos.org/webgl/specs/latest/2.0-compute/ https://registry.khronos.org/webgl/specs/latest/2.0-compute/ https://github.com/9ballsyndrome/WebGL_Compute_shader/issues/9 https://github.com/9ballsyndrome/WebGL_Compute_shader/issues...
- flohofwoe 1y ago
  Access to slightly more recent GPU features (e.g. WebGL2 is stuck on a feature set that was mainstream ca. 2008, while WebGPU is on a feature set that was mainstream ca 2015-ish).

flohofwoe 1y ago

You can already do that in WebGL, WASM or Javascript, thankfully all those technologies are easily ad-blockable.

codedokode 1y ago

Probably primary use will be fingerprinting if WebGPU provides GPU name, libraries info like WebGL does.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]